Looking for a good hunting 10mm bullet...

[cwlongshot]

Morning fellas,
I have a G20 with a 6" barrel I am looking to do some whitetail/hog hunting with. I prefer a heavy slug, but because of case cap think I would be best served with 200-210grs. I have been working up loads looking for a good balance between top vel and accuracy. So far everything is shooting good, but vel is lo. I am into the mid 1200's with a 200g jacketed and a 6" barrel. NO PRESSURE signs yet... I would love to see 1300 and 2" 50 yard accuracy. As I said so far accuracy is NOT a problem, all loads are shooting very well.

I WAS set with the 200XTP, but would like to look at CB's. I have used them in my 45 Colt for many years with good success.

My "issue" is getting a good WFN profile that will have good terminal affect, yet still reliably feed...

Any and all help appreciated,
CW

[41mag]

So far I cannot speak for the cast option in a 10mm. I can however say that ramping up the 200gr bullets in this caliber to 1300 is a REALLY warm load.

I am running the 180gr Gold Dots at 1350 form a 7" barreled Javelina, and those are pushing the cases a touch.

I can also add that a 180gr GD will do a number on a hog. I have used them on a deer so can't say but figuring from the damage and penetration I get on shots out to around 25yds with the GD's I would have to say a deer would be pretty easily dispatched as well.

The three tied to the back of the 4 wheeler were all taken with the 180gr GD, the little one in the middle was actually from a pass through.


This said, I believe you would do as good or possibly even better if you could find a reliably feeding WFN design, or possibly one with a shallow cut HP. If your already getting mid 1200's with the 200gr you could probably easily get that with a cast in the same weight. With a WFN or shallow but wide HP you would probably have a very formidable load for sure.

[ml45]

I have a mold 10mm swc ww alloy 240 grn

[Glen]

For deer-sized game, I like this one:

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLyleEckmanHP.htm

[10 ga]

I shoot 40cal 200 gr. XTPs and Noslers saboted in my custom smokeless .45cal muzzleloaders. Usually just a sweet 2100 fps and they give great performance on whitetail. And they shoot very accurate. If I push them any faster they tend to grenade on contact. I have had passthrough DRT rib shots on deer up to 180#. Have had several shots quartering on and the slugs usually end up in the rear ham or hip area or exit. Terminal performance has been excellent. Of course I'm wanting a mold for a cast .40 at about 230 gr. but have been busy and not keeping up with my "wants". $.02

10 ga

[cwlongshot]

I shoot 40cal 200 gr. XTPs and Noslers saboted in my custom smokeless .45cal muzzleloaders. Usually just a sweet 2100 fps and they give great performance on whitetail. And they shoot very accurate. If I push them any faster they tend to grenade on contact. I have had passthrough DRT rib shots on deer up to 180#. Have had several shots quartering on and the slugs usually end up in the rear ham or hip area or exit. Terminal performance has been excellent. Of course I'm wanting a mold for a cast .40 at about 230 gr. but have been busy and not keeping up with my "wants". $.02

10 ga

This is GREAT to hear!!!

WOW... I am floored! 2100 fps and they are holding together?!?!?!

Not doubting your results, only questioning. Because the factory rates them at a optimal, top performance velocity of 1200fps. At your MV, your bullets should still be impacting at 2000 fps. WOW! I should not have a worry with my 1300 MV in my hand gun.

I have a couple boxes to try, I WANT them to work, I do like the XTP line of bullets. I use them in a number of calibers with excellent results.

CW

[Grandpas50AE]

Don't shy away from cast just because you have an answer about the jacketed performance. I found out many years ago that the heavier-for-caliber cast boolits will kill game just as effectively as jacketed, but do far less meat damage. My best friend and I have taken deer now with cast boolits in pistol from .357 mag. up to .44 mag. and there is not near as much wasted meat as when we used to take them with Speer or Sierra jacketed HP's. As soon as I can afford another mold I am going to get one from either Miha or from Accurate Molds for my 10mm Kimber Eclipse. I have 180gr. Sierra's shooting well at 50 yards in it at just over 1310 fps, and will go with cast at about 210gr for about 1200 - should be a great deer load.

Just another option you may want to consider.

[MBTcustom]

cwlongshot, I am wondering why you are getting so excited over a sub standard projectile?
The Hornady XTP is one bullet that has come very close to cast lead performance through careful engineering of the hollow-point and exact weakening cuts on the edge of the jacket, but any flatnosed cast lead projectile could easily trump the XTP's performance at those speeds. You should try them both on live meat to see what I am talking about. The cast lead boolit always wins in a side-by-side comparison on live game. It doesn't make the huge hole, it doesn't end up five times its size, it just works and works better. Sometimes I think of it like my skinning knives, I have some that are high-quality stainless steel, and they hold their edge forever, and they wont rust yada, yada, yada, but then you take the old handmade carbon steel knife that has the nasty patena all over it. It aint pretty, but it will outskin the SS knife all day long. It just works better for some reason. I say this as a man who has made hundreds of knives both hand-forged and ground from some of the most exotic tool steels and hardened in atmospherically controlled furnaces. I've tried it all, and I can tell you from experience; shoot your supper with a cast lead boolit, skin it with a carbon steel knife, and cook it in a cast-iron skillet. You can't go wrong.
However, if you are just overrun with time and money, then by all means; shoot warp-speed jacketed bullets, skin out whatever is left that's edible with a fancy stainless steel knife and when you get home (horror!) fry it up in your teflon lined, flavor killing,pampered chef, guci, cookware. More power to ya!
I am a practical man. I don't do much for the sake of nostalgia. Honestly, if cast lead boolits worked just as well as jacketed for hunting, I would shoot jacketed and save myself the time and effort of casting and working up a load for a rifle. However, the superior performance of cast boolits makes it all worth it. I am confident that I am shooting the best projectiles that money can't buy.

[Bigbore4me]

cwlongshot - In your original post you don't mention if your 6" barrel is a Glock or after market . I am a huge fan of cast boolits for hunting but, at the risk of getting flamed, I think it is worth pointing out if you are using a Glock barrel with polygonal rifling it is not recommended for use with any type of lead boolit. You might get by with it if you are shooting a few rounds but since it appears you are pushing the envelope on velocity, thus pressure, you may want to take that into consideration if you plan to use a cast boolit.

I use a Glock 35 for one class of USPSA and I changed the barrel out so at times I can feel comfortable using cast boolits in practice.

[MBTcustom]

No comment.

[cwlongshot]

Mornin guys!

Thanks for the suggestions!

My 6" barrel is a KKM. Im aware of the "suggestions" of no lead thru a polygonal rifled barrel. I cannot say I subscribe to it, but yes I know. I look at it in the same light as short cases fired in long chambers. If you keep them clean you will not have problems. People will almost always blame equipment or manufacturers before taking personal responsibility. I bought the longer barrel for better ballistics.

I do know of the attributes of a good cast slug. I have another post looking for a good WFN profile mold that will feed in the G20. I have a Lyman 10mm 200g TC mold coming.
I have been casting, shooting lead for more than thirty years. But only shot a hand ful of game with them. All but two fell to the 45Colt and 325g WFNGC slug I cast myself. The other two where 440g 500 S&W from a LEE mold.

As for my pushing things with velocities, it's not my first "go round" building safe loads. my tests so far show very promising velocities and no pressure signs. Next steps will be accuracy. I want under 2" at 50 yards as minimum. So far I have only fired a few but all shoot at least that good.

CW

[Bigbore4me]

The KKM should serve you well and you should be able to accomplish your goals. I agree with people not following proceedure and then pointing a finger elsewhere. However, for an inexperienced Glock owner reading this thread, with regard to no lead thru a polygonal rifling, that is a warning Glock issues not some internet folklure.

[MBTcustom]

I have been casting, shooting lead for more than thirty years. But only shot a hand ful of game with them.

That's good to know. I confess, from time to time I have been guilty of judging the posters experiance by their post count. You hang out here for a year or two, and its an easy mistake to make. I was worried that you might never experience the awesome results of a high speed cast lead boolit on game. Lots of folks here cast to save money on practice, but load up with jacketed for any serious work, and I think that is a tragedy. You are obviously better informed than the average caster.

[melter68]

Boy game shooting like that, i would kill for, so i would shoot any boolit, you guys dont understand what freedom you have in the states.
cheers chris in england

[gofastman]

I am wondering why you are getting so excited over a sub standard projectile

You do realize XTP stands for eXtreme Terminal Performance, right?

I am planning on designing and ordering a mold like Yondering has soon, hopefully this week actually. I'm going to incorporate a bit larger rear driving band, higher lube capacity and closer to the 190-200gr weight range. I dont know what Mountain Mold's turn-around time is right now, but you are more than welcome to a sample of them if it gets here anytime soon.

[MBTcustom]

Don't get me wrong, the XTP is a fantastic bullet if that's what you are after, It just doesn't have near enough core, and too much fancy-dancy jacket for my taste. Think about it, all that fancy flowering and stuff is just the manufacturer trying to get the jacket out of the way so the bullet can perform like a solid lead bullet. With rifle bullets, they have speed on their side and they use it. Pistol bullets have nothing to help them except advertising and engineering, but until they find a way to get the jacket away from the lead so that it can function properly, it just wont ever get there. About the time they come up with some space-age bullet that performs as well as strait WW alloy, I'll start bringing up BruceB's soft nosed boolits and put 'em all back at square one!
The only time that jacketed bullets beat cast lead, is in the specific instances where extreme accuracy and speed is needed. I still shoot Sierra matchkings and gamekings in my 300Winmag because I just can't get 1/2MOA and I can't make a lead boolit survive the trip down the barrel. Every other rifle I own exclusively uses cast lead, not because I am cheap, but because they work that much better, and any pistol that comes into my ownership will never see another factory bullet. I only shoot the best.

[cwlongshot]

Tim,

I agree, many folks will look at post count and judge there experience. You would think, by now, they would have learned better. A person's time on/with a site, has little to nothing to do with what he/she brings to the table.
I think that's what sig lines are for. Many use them for a saying or advertisement. This says things as well. Still others like to use them like a badge of honor. Still others simply lost accomplishments so others might realize they have been around.

You are correct, my post count is low. But what the post cound dosen't how is, I have been lurking here from time to time for a couple years. Same with a couple other sites, jumping in to too many at once takes up allot of time. So I try to focus on a few. I come from a few, first Marlin owners, then for a long time GBO ( I'll probably never leave, that one has too many GREAT people over there!) more recietly I found, 10MM forums as well as GLOCKTalk. There are a couple fermilular faces across these boards.

I have renewed cast bullet interest, so I come where I feel the best knowledge is. Cast boolit forums.

Thank you for the compliment, Yes, I have some knowledge, yes, I have been around a time or three. One hears better listening than talking... But, I sternly believe, we stop learning the day we die. Strong arguments can be made that it still dosen't stop... But that's for another forum on another day.... :

CW

[cwlongshot]

The KKM should serve you well and you should be able to accomplish your goals. I agree with people not following proceedure and then pointing a finger elsewhere. However, for an inexperienced Glock owner reading this thread, with regard to no lead thru a polygonal rifling, that is a warning Glock issues not some internet folklure.

Hello BB,

Yea, I know it's Glocks recommendation not to use lead from polygonal rifling. I also know lawyers have a huge hand in writing such things, in an effort to protect there interests. ANY probably combo that could cause problems will be advised against. You do know most every manufacturer advised against hand loads to don't you?

Pease,
CW

[9.3X62AL]

I've gone a slightly different route with my 10mm (S&W 1026 with 5" barrel) as a deer pistol. I use the RCBS 200 grain TC design, which has a smaller meplat than do a lot of TC boolits. I cast these as BruceB Softpoints, using a 75 grain donor slug (Lyman #257420) to create the point.

Getting a cast 200 grain boolit to 1200 FPS takes less pressure than does a 200 grain jacketed bullet. AA-7, AA-9, and WC-820 have done well for me, and 1250 FPS from the 5" barrel can be had without much strain on the brass. The fired cases from these loads resize easily and show no "smilies" from the S&W chamber.

A Glock 20 with 6" aftermarket barrel offering conventional rifling and full case support in the chamber would be a very fine hunting pistol.

I'm not certain that every last bit of velocity from the 10mm is necessary. With good bullets/boolits, I'm prompted to think that the difference between 1100 and 1250 FPS serves more as a mental benefit for the shooter than as a physical detriment to the quarry. My most-blooded rifle--an 1897-made Winchester 1873 carbine in 44/40 WCF--has at minimum 200 deer and a couple black bears to its credit. It did all this with a 200 grain .429" bullet running 1100-1200 FPS. My testing to date comparing 1100 FPS loads vs. 1225-1250 loads shows no significant accuracy differences between the two intensities at 25 and 50 yards from the 1026. That was a nice surprise, since I was testing to check for trans-sonic bullet destabilization, and it wasn't apparent. What WAS apparent was that 1100 FPS loads were significantly more comfortable to shoot for extended range sessions, though this has zero application to game field usage. Rested accuracy--which is how a game shot would be attempted--ran about 3" at 50 yards from the open/fixed irons, and a slight tap-over of the rear sight got the irons looking where the boolits landed.

The only fly in the ointment at present.......my local deer zone requires the use of unleaded bullets for hunting, owing to the Condor Cuddlers in Sacramento and their Flat Earth Society-like natterings.

[softpoint]

I have a G20, aftermarket barrel, but just 5" I also just put together a 6" 1911 with a Caspian frame and a Fusion slide and barrel. Very accurate. I have cast up a bunch of RCBS 200 grain TC bullets. They shoot very well out of both guns. Haven't had the chance to hunt with them yet. I'm thinking that anywhere from 1000 fps up out of this bullet will get the job done. I'm using Longshot powder.