Just wondering, is the blackhawk in 45lc stronger than the old model vaquero?
I have both but not sure about the vaqueros ability to take as heavy a load as the blackhawk. Really would like to be able to only create one load that would work in the blackhawk, vaquero and rossi 92.
Thanks
dogg
I believe the strength issues are with the newer, smaller framed 'New Model Vaquero'. Mine came with warnings to load with CAS loads. Others may have more info.
Dutch
"The future ain't what it used to be".
-Yogi Berra.
Both are built on the same frame, use the same internal parts, ans well as the same cylinder. The only difference is the topstrap and the fact that the Vaquero has a steel grip frame whereas Blackhawks have an alloy grip frame.
I load GENERIC ammo for 44 and 357 both...not great but good. What works well in one doesn't necessarily do as well in the second AND THEN you throw a rifle into the works! For rifle specific, I can do better with a few less guns to adjust for.Originally Posted by Dogg
The Original Size VAQUERO is a cannon...got a bunch of them. It might actually be stronger than an equivalent frame size BLACK HAWK in the same caliber....sight cuts are considerably smaller in the VAQUERO. IF you load heavy enough to challenge either RUGER, you're loading too d*** hot!
Only partially true:
Stainless Steel Blackhawks do have STEEL (stainless) frames.
The new Vaqueros and the small framed Blackhawks which have 3 digits before the dash in the ser.# have smaller frames and cylinders and should not be treated to the same loads as the 2 digit Blackhawks and Vaqueros.
Heck the sight cuts aren't the weak spot. Look at the bolt notches on this 44. Imagine how thin the 45 is, and if you aren't scared yet, imagine the mid-frame with it's smaller cylinder.The Original Size VAQUERO is a cannon...got a bunch of them. It might actually be stronger than an equivalent frame size BLACK HAWK in the same caliber....sight cuts are considerably smaller in the VAQUERO. IF you load heavy enough to challenge either RUGER, you're loading too d*** hot!
With that said, my 45's are loaded with 300+ gr boolits and enough H110 to touch the base of it
I picked up one of the New Vaquero in .357, The cylinder is very thick. Looks like they use the same cylinder for the .45 but just boar it out to .357, Lots of steel between chambers. I checked my blued SBH .44 grip frame with a magnet and it stuck, If it is alloy it must have a good amount of steel in it.
You're correct. I MIGHT try one of the mid frame 357s...or a 44 special...BUT the mid frame 45 isn't on my TO BUY list. The mid frame 45 looks like an accident waiting to happen to me.Heck the sight cuts aren't the weak spot. Look at the bolt notches on this 44. Imagine how thin the 45 is, and if you aren't scared yet, imagine the mid-frame with it's smaller cylinder.
With that said, my 45's are loaded with 300+ gr boolits and enough H110 to touch the base of it
Remember Uncle Ed's laws of handgunning.
1. If they don't make carbide dies and a DILLON shell plate for it, FORGET IT!!!
2. If you have to load it to maximum, you need a larger caliber.
The Supers and Hunters have steel gripframes as well. The alloy frame is on regular ol Blackhawks and Single Sixes. While on the subject, the mid-frame Blackhawks have steel XR-3 frames.
tec4260 was that blown up blackhawk a new model or old model 44? Had that happen to me with S&W 657, kinda attention getting. mine wasn't a big bang but just a little pop and the top strap and top of one chamber were gone!
Keep in mind ALL Blackhawks have investment cast, NOT forged steel frames. A forged steel frame of equal weight and dimensions will be stronger.
45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!
I am pretty sure it was a 3 screw Flattop. I got the pic from sixshot. I believe the load was a 300gr cast over Unique. There was a thread on it called OM convertable or something similar.
New Model Blackhawks (fullsize ) have alloy and or steel grip frames (from the factory ) depends what it is . Buckeyes steel , 5 1/2 super BLKHWKS (.44) and stainless .Most evering else is Al. alloy . The big Vaqueros are the same strength as BLKHWKS Little guns use little loads .
I have 8 "old" Vaqueros and 3 "new" Flattop Blackhawks. All old Vaqueros cylinders are the same size from 32-20 to 45 Colt. Same for the 357,44 Special and 44 Mag "New" Flattops. i.e. each model has a single size cylinder,holes are just different. The frame size doesnt have **** to do with strength,its the smaller cylinder and correspondingly less meat in it. THAT is the reason you cant/arent supposed to load them as hot.
And IF a person would do some reading,be realistic and use common sense a 45 Colt doesnt have to push a 300 grain bullet at Mach 5 to kill a deer or an elk and possibly a T-Rex.
Also Tek it was a 3 screw 44 with a suspected double charge.
Last edited by dmize; 07-06-2012 at 11:19 PM.
unless you pushed a 300+gr bullet to mach IV its pretty difficult to understand why people do it if you have done it you most likely understand why we do it. JMHO YMMV
I do and have done it. In my Blackhawk and my "old" Vaquero.
The point I was trying to make is dont reject a gun just because it cant be hotrodded into Casull territory.
One of the plesant things I discovered with my Flattop 44 Special is that it is smaller lighter handier and realistically can do anything I need with book special loads.
Then again if a person can only afford or wants just one gun,I can appreciate the other point of view too.
New Vaqueros and flat-top blackhawks in .357, .44 special, and 45 (both LC and convertibles) have much smaller cylinders, both in length and diameter. If you look at the thickness of the web of the cylinder on the .45, it's very thin. I don't think I'd run 30 grains of 296 behind a 300 grain boolit on these.
Read this article...www.gunblast.com/Ruger-NewVaquero.htm
I see your point and totally agree
Without specifying the alloy and heat treatment that statement is not true. Forging has the potential to provide some gains in strength of investment casting, but in this application it isn't needed. More importantly the "weak" link in SA revolvers, as so graphically displayed, is the cylinder. I put weak in parenthesis because it generally takes on heck of an overload to blow one, and I believe the pictured failure was based on a 300+ gr cast bullet loaded with unique. Overload a round to the point that the cylinder can't contain the pressure, and the cylinder takes out the top strap. And there have been plenty of cast superblackhawk frames that have been fit with oversized cylinders and run high pressure 45 colt and 475 linebaugh loads.
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