Diamond Back Powder

[Beekeeper]

I have just started to use it and have run into a snag (I think).
With Goex I use 70 grains of powder and it is perfect to seating the boolit out where I want it.
With Diamond Back (same granulation FFG) I need to add a cotton wad to get the same seating.
If I increase to 75 grains I do not need the wad.
How much pressure increase will I get if I increase to 75 grains.
May not be a problem in some of the newer guns but in the old antiques I shoot it has to be considered.


beekeeper

[montana_charlie]

I have just started to use it and have run into a snag (I think).
With Goex I use 70 grains of powder and it is perfect to seating the boolit out where I want it.
With Diamond Back (same granulation FFG) I need to add a cotton wad to get the same seating.
If I increase to 75 grains I do not need the wad.
How much pressure increase will I get if I increase to 75 grains.
May not be a problem in some of the newer guns but in the old antiques I shoot it has to be considered.

First, are you talking about weighed charges, or charges thrown with a volume measure marked off in grains?

If you are comparing volume charges, it may be that a 75 grain setting for Diamondback throws about the same weight of powder that you get with a 70 grain setting and Goex.

In which case, the amount of 'fuel' behind the bullet is about the same ... but one requires a bit more space to hold it.

Second, what thickness of wad is required to make up the powder column difference? Judging from assurances by others, I am becoming convinced that a small amount of empty space in a black powder cartridge is not a hazard.

If you need the wad to support the bullet so that it maintains the OAL, then a felt wad is more firm than a wad of cotton.

Finally, I honestly don't think that adding 5 grains to your former load will cause any damage to your rifle.

CM

[Beekeeper]

Thanks Charlie!
I use a measure to get in the ball park and weigh all charges.
Anal carryover from smokeless powder.
The Diamond Back FFG seems to be a finer grind than the Goex FFG and when drop tubed it settles better than Goex.
Scale weights are exactly the same .
Adding the additional 5 grains was my only worry ,again anal carry over from loading smokeless.
Thanks for the info and will give the extra 5 grains a go on the next reload.


beekeeper

[Don McDowell]

You can't put enough blackpowder in that case to hurt anything.
You likely will find that Diamondback fouls excessively.

[Maven]

"You likely will find that Diamondback fouls excessively."

Don & Beekeeper, After using +3lb. of DB FFg, I haven't found that to be the case at all. While not exactly pristine, it fouls no worse than Goex FFg or Graf's (Wano) FFg, but then I'm using it in 3 ML's, not BPCR's.

[Beekeeper]

I fired 15 rounds P/P using Black Diamond FFG using a clean barrel to start with.
I found the fouling to be no worse than Goex FFG and slightly easier to clean than the Goex.
Instead of hard black fouling it was considerably softer and a grey/black in color.
Haven't fired enough of it to make any claims but so far it shoots well.
The only question I had about it was since what little BP I have shot has always been goex FFG , the Diamond Back seems to be a much more polished mix and weight for weight on a beam scale the Diamond back takes up less space when dropped through a 36 inch drop tube.
Enough so that I need to add a wad to ensure no air space and still seat the boolit where I want it.

Which brings up the next question."I'm cheap" I like to make everything I can instead of buying everything.
So to make wads (vegie or otherwise) what material is best to purchase?


beekeeper

[Mike Brooks]

Lots of folks use milk cartons or tablet backing.

[montana_charlie]

'Veggie' wads are just gasket material ... available in sheet form from places like NAPA.

CM

[EDK]

'Veggie' wads are just gasket material ... available in sheet form from places like NAPA.

CM

Even better as scrap from work. They throw away a lot of usable stuff like that in power plants! Do some networking with friends working in various industries.

[Hiwall55]

try Minute Maid orange juice containers -.024 thick and works great

[Wayne Smith]

If you eat a lot of Chinese take out the tops of those containers are the right plastic for wads, too. I did not find a significant difference between the fiber wads or the plastic wads in my 40-70BN.

[smokemjoe]

"You likely will find that Diamondback fouls excessively."

Don & Beekeeper, After using +3lb. of DB FFg, I haven't found that to be the case at all. While not exactly pristine, it fouls no worse than Goex FFg or Graf's (Wano) FFg, but then I'm using it in 3 ML's, not BPCR's.

Hi Maven: I used Diamond in my gun and it burns clean, still have to swap, I use 6 oz. to 8 oz. cannon grade and a 16 lb. bowling ball= 1100 yds.

[Maven]

Joe, Firstly, I hope you are in good health! Second, the day after posting, I went to the range with my .54cal. Isaac Haines rifle, which Waksupi built for me. I used 60gr. Diamondback FFg + a .022" denim patch wetted with Winchester Sutler's "Moose Milk." (This was for 25 yd. offhand practice, hence the light powder charge.) There was no powder fouling to speak of in the bore, and not really much in the chamber when I cleaned the gun later. So far as I can tell, DB is a high quality powder at an affordable price.

[Mike Brooks]

Good to hear you guys are doing well with it. I bought 2 lbs of it because it was cheap and ran it through my shot gun. Worked well, now I wish I would have tried it in other guns as well.....I can always get more I guess.

[1874Sharps]

Beekeeper,

Different BP brands will give slightly different weights for a give volume measure. There will be little pressure difference in your antique guns by increasing the BP load a few grains. I think you will be just fine.

[Beekeeper]

After shooting my first pound of it my findings (disclamer: with my old junker Martini Mauser) are that it requires a higher sight setting on my vernier rear sight. Not much but it does need to be higher so I think it is not as hot as the Goex I have been using.

Clean up is much easier than goex and the fouling is much softer.( again disclaimer: I do not wipe between rounds and use a blow tube about every 3rd round.)
The 43 Mauser barrel doesn't seem to care if it is blow tubed or not using a.446 boolit.
P/P ed it doesn't seem to care either.
A lot of experimenting left to do with the rifle and powders before I am satisfied but isn't that what it is all about anyway!


beekeeper

[John Boy]

If you are comparing volume charges, it may be that a 75 grain setting for Diamondback throws about the same weight of powder that you get with a 70 grain setting and Goex.

Here's what Charlie is talking about ... Density (weight per grain) of gunpowder and every brand/granulation is different ... but Diamond back is more dense than Goex:

Examples:
1.134 Diamondback FFg (01-2127
1.124 Diamondback FFFg (01-3309)

0.905 Goex FFg 02 11 05MY23B
0.944 Goex FFFg 99JY02C
0.955 Goex FFFg 03 46 07NO03B
0.916 Goex FFFg 03 56 08NO02 B ... 2008, the year Goex had issues with their charcoal
100 cc volume - pan weighed

And as you can see - every lot of powder also has a different density

[Beekeeper]

I have a BP measure that I use but still weigh every charge so 70 grains of one is the same as 70 grains of the other.
Even with weighed charges the Goex is a little hotter than the Diamond back.
The Diamond Back is a good powder and I think I will like it once I get used to it.
But being a rank newbe at the Black Magic of BP and at my age I do not think I will ever become knowledgeable enough to make any definative statements about any powder ( no offence ment John Boy) just fact as at age 74 and a beginner I am running out of time rapidly to gain enough knowledge to ever be on the level with any of you.

beekeeper

[Tatume]

... sight setting needs to be higher so I think it is not as hot as the Goex

I have found that higher speed often shoots lower, so just the opposite may be true.

Take care, Tom