Surplus powders in the 444marlin ?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
From my records the lightest boolit I have shot was the 170gr.
It was just a fun squib practice load.
13 grs. of RED DOT worked OK.
13 GRS. of 700X worked OK, NOT GREAT GROUPS.
With these I DID NOT use a filler.
Just elevate the barrel before shooting each time to get powder back against the primer.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
This bullet worked out better for me. Both jacketed & Pb versions.
In the 70's there were only pistol jacketed bullets in this weight, so at full power they were only a small game /practice load.
Between my Ruger SBH 44 mag pistol & the 444 marlin lever action I fired over 1,000 of the Jacketed bullets alone.
A lot of fun & low recoil.
FULL POWER LOADS:
IMR 3031 50-55-58 GRS. 2030- 2240- 2400'/S 55GRS. WAS BEST FOR ME.
IMR 4198 45-49-50-51 GRS. 2200-2410-2450-2500'/S 46.5 WAS BEST
IMR 4895 54-55-58-61GRS. 2055-2330-2400-2500'/S 55GRS. WAS BEST
IMR 4831 FULL CASE (C) 2066'/S

REDUCED LOADS:
H 4227 33-35GRS.
WW630 16.5 -22 GRS. 1310-1605'/S
BLUE DOT 15-20 GRS. 1335- 1745'/S
SR 7625 13-18 GRS. 1440-1755 '/S
SR 4756 14-19 GRS. 1425-1755'/S
IMR 4189 39.5GRS. + FILLER 2010'/S BEST GROUP FOR ME.

These were all shot in a 444marlin lever action with a 24" barrel.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I consider the 120gr. R.B, the 129gr., the 158gr., the 166gr., the 170 gr., the 180gr., the 185 gr., the 200 gr., the 205 gr., the 210 gr. ,the 215 gr., the 220 gr, bullets to fit in the lite bullet group.
This may not be a complete list as this is from my research of the 1970's. I have not checked on what is available currently.
I feel there application is limited to small game & practice.

That said, in the 44mag pistol, at pistol velocities, they have taken deer for others.
They would also work in a self defense roll against 2 legged snakes.

I did not work with the others as I liked the 180 gr.
I do have loads for the 200gr, the 205 gr.,& the 215 gr. bullets, so if you want more info on them ask.
As always use common sense, start low & work up checking for pressure signs.

The acceptable SAAMI pressure levels for the 444 marlin are 44,000 CUP or 42,000 PSI.
ONCE AGAIN, THE USE OF FIBER WADS, OR FIBER FILLERS IN STRAIT WALLED CASES MAY RESULT IN CHAMBER RINGING.
The best COL that seems to work with out jamming the lever action is between
2.494 and 2.582"

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I stopped using the lite bullets in just a couple yrs.
When I moved to the mid weight bullets these were the ones I could find ( AT THAT TIME):
The 225gr, the 232 gr., the 237 gr., the 240 gr., the 245gr. the 246gr., the 250gr., the 255gr., the 265gr., the 270 gr., 275 gr., 280 gr., the 290 gr.

I liked the 225gr.(JACKETED), the 240gr.(JACKETED), the 250 gr.(LEAD w/ G.C.), & 265 gr.(JACKETED).
I have killed deer with each of these bullets, DRT kills.
MANY HAVE PUT DOWN THE 225 & 240 GR. JACKETED BULLETS DUE TO OVER EXPANSION.
I did not find this to be a problem for me.
These 4 bullets, when making a chest or shoulder hit on Mule Deer, picked up the deer rotated their bodies horizontal to the ground & threw them 4' sideways. BANG FLOP. NO TRACKING.
Recoil does start to get noticeable with the 250 & 265 gr. bullets for me. I did not enjoy shooting after 13 rounds with the full power loads with the 265gr. after 15 rounds with the 250gr. at the range.
I did not experiment with other the mid wt. bullets but can provide load data if you ask.
There were very good reasons the factory (Remington) chose the 240 & 265 gr. bullets.
The 240 gr. is excellent on deer sized game & down in weight & toughness & recoil is not bad.
The 265gr. is excellent for bigger,heavier, tougher , thicker skinned game.
I have read dozens of successful accounts of DRT results with these bullets with boiler room hits.
However hunting is NOT the same as charge stopping, from bear or moose.
I have shot multiple 1,000's of the 225gr., the 250 gr., & several 100's of the 240gr., & some of the 265 gr.
And I still do .
If I had to choose only 1 load, it would be the 265gr., as it is the most versatile.
But then I would have to limit my amount of shooting of full power loads, due to recoil.
You see I like to shoot a lot.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Oops I forgot to post my pet FULL POWER loads for the 180gr. bullet.
I got my best groups with 46.5 grs. of IMR 4198.

I TRIED:
IMR 3031 50-58 GRS. THE BEST LOAD WAS 55GRS. AT A MV OF 2240'/S
IMR 4895 54-61GRS. THE BEST LOAD WAS 55GRS AT MV OF 2330'/S
1MR 4831 HERE YOU CAN JUST FILL THE CASE & HAVE COMPRESSED (C) CHARGE. WAS THE LEAST ACCURATE.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
For REDUCED/LITER/SQUIB LOADS with the 180 gr. bullet I tried:
WW 630 16.5-22GRS. 1310-1605'/S
BLUE DOT 15-20 GRS. 1335-1745'/S
SR 7625 13-18GRS. 1440-1755'/S
SR4756 14-19GRS. 1425-1755'/S
IMR 4198 39.5 GRS + DACRON FILLER 2010'/S BEST GROUPS.

The jacked bullet gives good expansion at these velocities, while the cast bullet gives better penetration.

For best results I would suggest elevating rifle barrel to the vertical between shots.
this gets powder to rear against primer , many powders are position sensitive in the case.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
While I no longer use this bullet in the 444, it was fun to shoot & effective on the deer & lesser game I shot with it. I had some feeding problems with it , causing occasional jams.
I still us it in the 44 mag. on deer & lesser game, which I feel is it's best application.
I tried:
H 4895 56GRS. 2301'/S
H335 61GRS. 2340'/S
BL (C) 2 61GRS. 2358'/S
H 4227 33GRS. 2099'/S
IMR 3031 50-55GRS. 2032'/S- 2237'/S OK GROUPS
IMR 4198 46-49 GRS. 2288-2409'/S BEST GROUP 48GRS.
IMR 4895 52-57GRS. 2036'/S- 2217'/S

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
ALL THIS & THE ABOVE WORK I DID BEFORE I GOT AWARE OF & INTO USING SURPLUS POWDERS.

Loads for the 225 gr. bullet can be had for the following powders.
the ones I tried are:
UNIQUE 12-17.5 GRS. BEST GROUPS 17GRS.
700X 10-15 GRS.
GREEN DOT 11-16 GRS.
H-110 24GRS.

ONES I DID NOT TRY ARE:
SR 4556 18-21 GRS.
SR 7625 13-17.5GRS
SR 4756 14-21GRS.
RED DOT 11-15.5 GRS
BLUE DOT 15-19.5 GRS.
WW 630 16.5-22GRS.

AS I may have said before RED DOT & 2400 are not position sensitive, I AM NOT SURE OF THIS BUT UNIQUE MAY NOT BE ETHER.
DOES ANYONE ELSE KNOW THIS FOR SURE?????????????????

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I used the 240 gr. bullet for awhile, but like the 225rg. experienced enough jams, that I no longer use it. That said it killed deer with no problem s for me.
But now it is regulated to use in my 44 mag.
The 225 &240gr. bullets were of JACKETED SWC design so perhaps that might have been part of the problem. Also I may not have hit on the ideal O.C.L. for them.
The nice thing with this wt. bullet is you are now getting into the weight range where it does not matter a lot weather the bullet is jacked or cast w/ G.C. , they can be shot at nearly the same velocities.
I AM AWARE OF ABOUT 33 OR MORE POWDERS THAT CAN BE USED WITH THIS WEIGHT BULLET.
I DID NOT TRY ALL OF THEM.
HERE ARE THE ONES I TRIED FOR LITE LOADS :
UNIQUE 12-17GRS. GOOD GROUPS, FAVORITE.
H 110 24GRS.
2400 31-40.3 GRS. NICE GROUPS
700X 10-14.5 GRS. OK USED A LOT
GREEN DOT 11-15.5 GRS OK USED A LOT
IMR 4198 37GRS. + FILLER 1760'/S GOOD GROUPS.
THESE LOADS VELOCITY RANGE IN THE 44MAG LEVEL 1100-1700'/S
I suspect that many deer have been taken with this type of load with the 44 mag., certainly you would have to admit that it would do as well in the 444 Marlin.
THERE ARE ABOUT 10 MORE USEABLE PISTOL POWDERS, ask if you want more info on this subject.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I shot & hunted deer with this bullet for awhile but moved to the 250gr. as it worked better through my lever action.
HERE WE FINALLY GET TO SURPLUS POWDERS.
There are at least 18-20 powders that give velocities over 2000'/s, that I know of.
Here are the ones I tried:
H 4198 46-49 GRS.
IMR 4198 42-48GRS., BEST GROUP WAS 46GRS. AT 2302'/S
IMR 4895 54-57GRS. GOOD GROUP WAS 56GRS. AT2200'/S
WC 846 54GRS.
YOU SEE I LIKE TO SHOOT A LOT!

[6pt-sika]

deleted

[6pt-sika]

deleted

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
This bullet became my favorite bullet, cast bullets with G.C. can be driven at FULL POWER & GREAT ACCURACY in MICROGROOVE & PORTED barrels. .
IN FACT I GOT BETTER ACCURACY WITH CAST THAN WITH JACKED BULLETS.
There about 10 pistol powders that can be used.
THESE ARE THE ONES I TRIED:
UNIQUE 11-17 GRS,,
I SHOT THE SMALLEST CAST BOLLIT GROUP I HAVE EVER SHOT.
1 RAGGED HOLE, 11 SHOTS.
700X 10-14.5GRS VERY GOOD GROUP 13GRS.
GREEN DOT 11-15.5 GRS.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
As I said before, the 250gr. bullet became my favorite, it functioned almost as well as the old R-P factory 265 gr. jacked bullet.
The recoil may have been slightly less, but its effect on Mule deer was the same, BANG-FLOP.
Also my marlin lever action shot it more accurately than the factory loads, & it was a cast boolit.
THE LOADS I TRIED WERE:
IMR 3031 44-55GRS. RESULTS WERE NOT AS GOOD AS FACTORY GROUPS.
IMR 4198 44 -47 GRS. GROUPS WERE BETTER THAN FACTORY LOADS , BEST 10 SHOT GROUPS I GOT WITH FULL POWER LOADS. AND A CAST BULLET.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I had wanted to have a hand load as good as the best factory load, & had one more accurate. Nearly the same as far as I could tell in energy level & effect on the game I had hunted commonly.
At that time there were some heavier bullets, but they were not very popular.
The 265 gr. RD, the 270GR. , 275 GR.,280GR. & 290GR. WERE NOT IN EXISTENCE, or I was not aware of them.
In fact the only data for heavier bullets I knew of was in an old HANDLOADER article that said the marlin would not stabilize anything above a 325gr.
I now have the 265 gr. Ranch Dog mold, & I think it would function even better through the lever action ( no jams), it has a bigger medplat , so it should be good for bigger game than deer easily. My mold actually drops 277gr finished boolits. I have a bunch of canister powder loads for it,but have not tried them.
If any of you have done work with it I would sure like to hear about it.
So please post.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The heavy weight bullets that I know of are the 300gr., the 310gr.,the 320gr., the 325 gr., the 350gr., the 370 gr. & the 400gr.

There may be others, if there are would you please post a reply about them.

I have managed to acquire a Lee WFN 310 gr. mold. Mine drops boolits that actually weight 325gs. lubed & GC'ed. It's shape makes me wounder if feeding/jam problems will occur.
This 310gr (325 gr.) along with the 265 gr. R.D. (277GR) are the 2 I would like to try next.
I do have some loads published by RANCH DOG & some of the manuals.
But am interested in using WC 860 which of course not listed.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I was hoping that some of you would give your experience with loading the 265gr, RANCH DOG bullet, or a bullet of about 277grs. in weight in the 444 marlin lever action.

[MT Gianni]

Boom Boom, you might start a new thread on the heavies to get more responses.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well I waited hoping for input on the 265 RD bullet & got none.

So does anyone have some input on the Lee 310gr. gc. bollit?
Or how about a WFN g.c bollit of 325 grs.