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Thread: 75,000 Wadcutters in a Model 27

  1. #61
    Boolit Master
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    Question! Are Model 27 & 28's stamped with a number designation or are there some that are not? This is kind of like answering my own question as My Highway Patrol Model does not have a Model number. It also does not have a frame size ( such as N, L, K, ) stamped on the frame anywhere or on the grip frame. I also have a S&W 44 mag 4 screw stamped only S&W 44 Magnum it is not a Model 29, I think it is known as a pre Model 29. On the left side of the grip frame at the bottom it is stamped ( R-N ) and those are the only Letters that I can find on the frame.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45-70 Chevroner View Post
    ...Question! Are Model 27 & 28's stamped with a number designation or are there some that are not?...
    No, the number designation came about in the 50s, (someone will know the correct year). Prior to that they had names, such as Highway Patrolman etc.
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

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  3. #63
    Boolit Master H.Callahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawHat View Post
    No, the number designation came about in the 50s, (someone will know the correct year).
    Generally, 1957. As with many things Smith does, there was no definitive date that they switched to model numbers. It depended a bit on the individual line/model, but 1957 is generally accepted as approximately when it happened.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master Texasflyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    Smith and Wesson did make a special run of fix sighted N frame 357 magnums for some New England State Police agency and some of the overun was sold on the commerical market. I forget the model number was it was not 28 or 27.
    Smith & Wesson Model 520 for the New York State Police.

    Here is a link:

    S&W Model 520 NYSP
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    http://www.hensleygibbs.com

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  5. #65
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.Callahan View Post
    Generally, 1957. As with many things Smith does, there was no definitive date that they switched to model numbers. It depended a bit on the individual line/model, but 1957 is generally accepted as approximately when it happened.
    I know this sounds odd today, but Smith and Wesson had no detailed mechanical drawings of its guns. There was a disassembled "master" kept in their vault. If somebody need a spec they went to the vault and took the measurment they needed.

    In 1957, it was decided to produce detailed mechanical drawings of their models. The first one was the popular Military and Police and it was given the model number 10. The other named models followed suite. It took a little more than a year to finish the project.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texasflyboy View Post
    Smith & Wesson Model 520 for the New York State Police.

    Here is a link:

    S&W Model 520 NYSP
    Yep that is it. My sister bought one at a gun show, but it proved to heavy for her and she sold it to me. I never took a liking to it and sold it down river.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  7. #67
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    l picked up my H&G #50 mold 4 cavity from the Post Office yesterday.The quality impresses me. Boy its really heavy compared to my Lyman 2 cavity. l now have all the supplies for Flyboy's load except the WW wadcutter brass. Guess l will just have to settle for that batch Fed wadcutter brass won off GB awhile back. Hope to try the #50 this weekend
    Last edited by sw282; 08-04-2012 at 09:22 AM.

  8. #68
    Boolit Buddy rromeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    I know this sounds odd today, but Smith and Wesson had no detailed mechanical drawings of its guns. There was a disassembled "master" kept in their vault. If somebody need a spec they went to the vault and took the measurment they needed.

    In 1957, it was decided to produce detailed mechanical drawings of their models. The first one was the popular Military and Police and it was given the model number 10. The other named models followed suite. It took a little more than a year to finish the project.
    That's interesting. Thanks for the education.

  9. #69
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    1957 was a signicant year at Smith and Wesson for a couple of reasons. They went from model names to numbers and mechanical drawings. They also changed the heat treament on their 38 Specials (K and J frame) to take higher pressures without undue wear. Thus revolvers from that time forth are rated for +P ammo.

    More trivia...
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  10. #70
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    I had to smile while reading this whole thread as it mostly mirrors my own experience. I was fortunate as a teenager who was mentored by several "old hands" who were accomplished pistol shots.

    I have, for some time, been using a six cavity H&G mould for the dbl ended W/C #251. Then a couple of months ago, on the Cast Bullet Assn Forum a gentleman offered a four cavity H&G mould complete with handles for the #50 BB W/C for a decent price. I ordered it out and it was, as described, in excellent condition. I ran off a couple thousand bullets and then sized/lubed them in my Star. They ran right at .358" and the .358 sizing die just "kissed" the bullets. Here is the results of my first outing with this bullet (standing at 25 yards):







    It is, indeed, a stellar bullet design from a great mould. The four cavity iron mould is only about 1/2 the weight of the six cavity mould I had been using and that is MUCH appreciated. The six cavity mould weighs nearly five pounds and gets heavy entirely too quick to suit me.

    FWIW
    Dale53

  11. #71
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    Nice! I wish I could shoot like that! Someday, I will!

    Not that I suck horribly....................

  12. #72
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    Dale-- l too love my #50 4cavity won off ebay. l cant imagine handling a heavier mold. lt squirts those 38 w/c bullets out like a spigot compared to my Lyman 2cavity. At least 3 times my old production rate. No beating on the mold, as they simply fall out the H&G. Almost no sizing required either. l cant wait to shoot some.

    btw--Dale, what weapon are you using for those great 25yard groups ??

  13. #73
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    sw82;
    A couple of years ago, I found a nice 686 (6" barrel) at the Ohio Gun Collectors from an estate sale. However, when I got it home, it really had too much barrel cylinder gap. It wasn't horrible, but it DID spit a bit and all in all, it didn't make me happy.

    I finally decided to do something about it. I took it to my local pistolsmith (Jack Basham of Cincinnati, Ohio). Jack set the barrel back with the barrel/cylinder gap at .002". He also re-reamed the forcing cone. It fairly transformed the gun. It no longer spits but most importantly, it SHOOTS!

    It has become one of those revolvers that goes to the range with me nearly every time I go.

    Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of it. It really is just an "ordinary" 686 (or was before Jack laid his hands on it) but it sure does shoot, now.

    Dale53

  14. #74
    Boolit Master
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    I would have bought the gun magazine that had this post as an article!

    A great read!

  15. #75
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    A+ N Frame Poster Child!

  16. #76
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    Enjoyed your post. Had a fellow officer that also taught me about 2.7 grains of bullseye and the number 50 Hensley & Gibbs. Encouraged me to buy my first Star progressive loader (I have two Star progressive loaders) and Star lubersizer.I disagree with you about not sizing your bullets. Sized and lubed with mirror lube I regularly shoot out of an N- frame 6 inch into one to one and a half inches at 25 yards off sand bags and the Star lubersizer is not slow. I know a thousand bullets go through it pretty fast. It surprises me how quick they disappear. That same load will bounce beer cans at seventy-two one hunderd yards pretty regular. My carry gun is a model 19-3 in 357 magnum loaded with hundred and twenty five grain jacketed hollowpoints in a 38 plus P loading. That's the heaviest load I practice with in that model 19. I shoot a lot of 357 hundred and fifty eight grain semi wadcutter with a medium load of good ole twenty four hundred. I know it's probably not possible but I would love to shoot with you sometime. It sounds as if we would have some fun. I am a wheel gun lover. They shoot every time. Burnt Powder
    Last edited by burntpowder; 08-19-2012 at 12:39 PM. Reason: typo

  17. #77
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texasflyboy View Post

    Ed also tutored me. First was the mastery of tumble lubing with Lee Liquid Alox. All those years previously I had patiently used a Star Sizer with a .358” die to size and then lube those wadcutters, one at a time. Ed showed me how to lube hundreds of wadcutters in about two minutes and allow them to air dry in about a day or so. A vast improvement on my own laborious technique.
    Would you mind expanding on this a little bit? Every person that I've seen tumble lube, did it a little differently. I'd be interested to hear the details of your method.

    Thanks,
    Jim
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  18. #78
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    I was fortunate enough to buy 39 boxes of Winchester-Western Super Match wadcutter ammunition for $6.26 a box. That should give me a lifetime's worth of brass.

    Now all I need is a Manurhin MR73...

  19. #79
    Boolit Master Texasflyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIMinPHX View Post
    Would you mind expanding on this a little bit? Every person that I've seen tumble lube, did it a little differently. I'd be interested to hear the details of your method.

    Thanks,
    Jim
    Here you go:

    I am currently casting with two six-cavity Hensley & Gibbs moulds. One mould is the #50 Plain Base Button Tip Wadcutter, the other is the #68 Plain Base semi-wadcutter. I often cast with two six cavity moulds as its more efficient to use two moulds at once with my bottom pour pot. While one mould is cooling, I am working the other.

    My Lee Liquid Alox Setup is this setup:





    Click for Larger Photo


    The items are: A Folgers plastic coffee can (about 1lb of coffee), a metal vegetable can that tightly fits into the folgers coffee can, this is how the bullets are lubed. The two cans fit into each other and with the bullets and lube inside, the two cans are twisted and rotated to tumble the bullets and evenly coat with lube. I typically count "20" rotations, and then dump the bullets onto a cookie tray and set it in front of a box fan to dry. Ready to load in 24 hours.

    I put the lee liquid alox bottle into a hot water filled detergent bottle when I start my casting session. Immersing the LLA thins it to allow it to pour and coat the bullets evenly. Typically, the LLA is ready to use in about 15 minutes after soaking in the homemade hot water bottle.

    On to the LLA coating sequence:



    Fill the plastic container about 1/2 full with unlubed bullets.



    Add the lee liquid Alox to the bullets. I just guesstimate how much to use based on experience.



    Fit the cans together into a tight seal.

    Rock and twist the two cans together about 20 times to evenly coat the bullets:

    Short movie: (~35MB AVI File):

    Movie of Bullets being lubed



    Pour onto a cookie sheet to dry. Spread evenly.



    I typically shake the cookie sheet to spread the bullets out evenly to dry.



    This is the sheet covered with both #50's and #68's.



    The final step is to set the trays out in front of a box fan to dry. Bullets are ready to load in 24 hours.

    That's how I do it. There are other ways I am sure but this is the most efficient method for me.
    Last edited by Texasflyboy; 09-28-2012 at 10:11 PM.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    http://www.hensleygibbs.com

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  20. #80
    Boolit Master
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    Tx-Great "How To" post. Funny you would show 38 and 45 boolits together. l just scored on a 45acp H&G mold today off ebay, a #130 185gr swc 4 cavity. lt seem the most popular pdr charge for the #130 bullet is 3 1/2gr Bullseye too

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check