38 special-best defense boolit?

[Longwood]

The backwards wad cutter was often called the best.
Someimes with a BB in the end.
I liked a stack of soft round (sorta squashed if fitting three) balls.

Then along came bad laws, Gloria Aldred and thousands more, money hungry "A" holes like her.

Just so you lurking, bottom dwelling, lawyers know, I have mine loaded with normal, everyday, factory ammo.

[375RUGER]

Carry the load that you can shoot the best.
When I met my wife she owned a .38 sp Taurus Titanium Lite 2" with internalcomp (magnaport). She hated to shoot it. The muzzle blast and kick was remarkable. That particular gun was stolen and I have sinced replaced it with similar but without the comp.

Since, I load I got her some Speer 110g JHPs and worked up a somewhat mild, accurate load. In wet news print they penetrated remarkably well and I felt as though they would be adequate for self defense, and she could handle this loading a lot better. Not tested on humans but they do kill very well. She rarely carried because of the gun, she still didn't like it.

At some point in time I eventually conviced her to shoot my 1911. She finally relented and shot it. It think we were married about 2- 2.5 years before she finally did.

I remember well the cringe on her face as she squeezed off that first shot--then the relaxation of relief and the exclamation of "that's not bad at all", followed by -"can I shoot it some more?". The loads were 230g hardball, somewhere between mid and full power-I always load for accuracy not power.

She has her own 1911 now, and never leaves home without it-she is very confident in her ability with it, and I'm proud of her. I think she never wants to shoot a snubby again, she has a Vaquero .357 instead.

I carry the Taurus when i need a smaller profile. when I get all the 110g shot up I will load a lot heavier for it though.

Right now we both carry handloaded hardball ammo, but I'm awaiting the arrival of a MBT Limited Edition 230g HP Mould , so my carry loads might change in the future-we'll see.

On another point I think the scum suckers would be hard pressed to make a case that handloads are somehow more deadly than factory self defense offerings. Unless someone chose a powder/bullet combination that shot warp speed with flames that would melt wolframite and left a hole big enough to drive a stagecoach through-then they might have a case.

Afterall, we are using a means of sanctioned lethal force becasue of an immediate threat to our person.

[garym1a2]

Come to think of it a female with a large purse could fit a Glock 21SF or 22 no problem.

[geargnasher]

Come to think of it a female with a large purse could fit a Glock 21SF or 22 no problem.

Or for that matter, three or four hand grenades.

Gear

[MGySgt]

Too much colateral damage with a grenade

LEO might have an objection.

[H.Callahan]

Too much colateral damage with a grenade

LEO might have an objection.

Depends on who got "collateraled". In some neighborhoods, it might be viewed as a community service.

[zxcvbob]

or urban renewal.

[Muddydogs]

My carry rounds are Speer Gold Dots in my 380, 38 and 40, Hornady XTP's are also a good choice. When it comes to getting the job done all the test point to jacketed bullets out performing cast slugs and I want the best. Don't get me wrong I like cast bullets, the last defensive pistol class I took I burned up the last 100 rounds of factory .40 I purchased before getting back into reloading and then proceeded to shoot another 200 180 grain truncated cone .40 cal rounds out of the XD that I casted and loaded. I even load my own carry ammo but when it comes to carry rounds jacketed all the way baby.

[MBTcustom]

When it comes to getting the job done all the test point to jacketed bullets out performing cast slugs and I want the best.

No offense, but i will respectfully and emphatically disagree. You haven't seen my tests.
Cast boolots dont open into pretty little flowers, like jacketed, but it is my opinion that when it comes to inherent stopping power, energy transfer, and shock profile, cast wins every time.

[Judan_454]

I agree with you goodsteel I always thought that ballistic media test were alway bias to jacket bullets. When ever I see ballistic media test it does not have bone and cartillage, musle, ligaments. Most of the tests I see now tend do tests only with auto loading pistol calibers like 9mm,357sig,40SW,45 ACP. What about 44 special, 45 colt, 357 mag,41mag even 44 mag all these revolver calibers are good home defense and selfdefense calibers with the right load. I see the bullet and ammo manfacters pushing these bonded bullets at 40 dollars a pop for 20 rds, and gun manufacters pushing there 15 to 20 rd autoloading pistols and kind of saying you cant defend yourself with a 5 or 6 shot revolver. I like autoload pistols just as much as the next guy but the revolver are still viable selfdefense tools.

[waksupi]

I agree on the cast being better. Those jacketed bullets that open so pretty, very likely wouldn't get through a heavy coat. Cast will.

[MBTcustom]

I have hunted with cast boolits the past two years. I have been hunting with jacketed for the past 15 years.
I have observed much better performance out of slow cast boolits than from fast jacketed. It is true that cast boolits don't cause the same amount of internal damage that jacketed boolits do, but the effect that they have on game animals is stunning to say the least. I don't know why they are so effective, but the difference is indisputable. I was running just moderate loads, but after witnessing the effectiveness of the cast boolits, I was thinking that I could easily back off to an even more manageable load than what I was running and still have excellent effect.
This evidence changed my mind forever on cast boolits in defensive situations. They just plain work!

[part_timer]

I'm pretty fond of the 180 gr WFN that runs in the group buys from time to time.

[Judan_454]

Real life hunting or defensive situations are always better gauge of how bullet works than shooting into ballistic gel with 2 layers of demin in front of it.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

I have a S&W model 36 snubby in 38 special as a self defense weapon. What is the best cast lead boolit to use for self defense purposes?

I thought this article was pretty good:

.38 Special LSWCHP +P: Still a Top Load?

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/3...r%20LSWCHP.htm

I would imagine that closely replicating this load wouldn't be a bad place to start for what you're looking for.

[geargnasher]

I agree on the cast being better. Those jacketed bullets that open so pretty, very likely wouldn't get through a heavy coat. Cast will.

I agree. I think in this situation, and many others, cast boolits of the appropriate composition for the boolit shape loaded to the most practically effective and safe pressures will best do the job.

I still don't understand why people keep bringing up off-topic or irrelevant points here. We're not talking about a 1300 fps platform. We're not talking about a .40 S&W. The question didn't involve which gun was best to carry. The lady asked about .38 Special, which she already owns, and a snubby at that. Has anyone else on this thread ever actually shot something living with one (or more) of those whizbang JHPs in a 2" BBL .38? I have. They turn in to a plugged-up round nose with no expansion, have less "shock" than a flat nose of any design, and will bounce off a pig's skull like it was a rock. IMO the boolit needs to be lead, and it needs to have a meplat. I noticed that others here who've used .38s to kill things tend to feel the same way.

Ok, getting off of soapbox now.....

Gear

[edit] Johhny C. posted while I was ranting, good article there and good point IMO.

[Tracy]

Paco Kelly wrote a really good article about the 358430, 195 grain "Super Police" roundnose bullet. He likes it, as did some of the cops he used to work with. Paco has done tests that support the rumor that those bullets tumble in soft tissue, producing greater tissue destruction than if they traveled nose-first.

I have shot quite a few of those bullets in my 2" Taurus M85, loaded over a charge of AL8 (between Blue Dot and 2400) that gives 815 fps from my snubby. They destabilize by 50 yards, but are accurate at defensive ranges.

I used one in that same snubby to kill a hog with a downward-angling shot through the skull. Not only did it not bounce off the pig's skull; it exited and went several inches into the ground. Needless to say, it killed the pig instantly.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

welcome to the forum Mrs. goodsteel.
my suggestion to your original question.
start with what you have and from the quote below,
it sounds like you are ahead of the curve.
and accuracy is a very good thing,
right next to being comfortable with the gun and the load.
OH, also practice the point and shoot,
you'll almost never have time to actually aim the gun using
the sights in a deadly confrontation.

I seriously need to do some penetration tests with the Lee SWC TL boolits I have. My wifes little model 36 is scary accurate with those. I'm talkin' paper plate at 50 yards off-hand.

I assume these are the 158 gr. previously mentioned.
I don't have any killing experience with a 38s
But the standard heavyweight is where I'd start
and it sounds like you already have it.
Jon

[Jeffrey]

I know the question was about boolits, but self defense is too important an issue to limit the options.
An aquaintance is an emt. One evening, sitting around the fire, we started discussing gunshot wounds.
His observations were "a handgun is a handgun, a rifle is a rifle, and a shotgun just makes a mess. But there is this round out there... laser, razor.. something like that." "Glaser" I said, "The Glaser Safety Slug?" "Yeah, that's it." He replied. "Of all he torso hits I've seen with a Glaser, only two have made it to the hospital alive. The first was hit in the upper left chest. He made it into the operating room. The doctors opened him up, saw the damage, closed him up, let him die. There was nothing they could do. The second was a guy who tried to rob a woman. She had a handgun in her purse. She shot him in the lower abdomen to one side, blew his ***cheek clean off. No more *** on that side."
Glasers have a lot going for them: lack of overpenetration and ricochet hazard, but they are expensive. A little better than $2.00 each in a six round pack. I fired one through my 1911 to test function. They are my summer carry round. Federal HydraShocks are my winter.

[ColColt]

Lead boolits sure killed a lot of fellers back n the old West days way before the advent of JHP's. However, today you can get into big time trouble, from what I've read, using home grown boolits of any sort over factory ammo. I don't know how much credence there is to that but I'll through it out at any rate. The only place I know of right off that you can get decent lead hollow points are from Buffalo Bore, such as the 158 gr "FBI" load.