AR-15 500 Round Cast Bullet Test

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

No I don't mind sharing load data.
First I have no way yo measure FPS sadly.
As for load data I am using 19gr 4895 in these loads.
It seems my casts are most accurate underloaded some.
I have used both 4895 powders with the same results.
I also used 4198 at 20 gr for good accuracy but it's dirty.
As a side note I make my own gas checks now too.
I'm getting a good 57 grain boolit with the gas check on it.
all in all I can't see buying bullets again.
That is to say 55 grainers.
I might plunk down the money for.some 65 grainers until some one makes a die for that weight.

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

also I almost forgot I did use some 355 also with good results. I have pushed the 4895 powders up to 23 grains and still had the same good accuracy but Im too cheap to keep using the powder. For my own training and practice I keep them at 19-20 grains.
Hope this helps

[bruce drake]

Threads like this is an indication of the maturing of the ARs as a firearm now that we are starting to use cast boolits in them. Excellent writeup by the OP. He was very correct on the LEE Bator mold hanging in feeding. The AR's bullet ramps really do need to use a spirepoint boolit for reliable feeding. And we've all proven the myth of spirepoint boolits not being accurate is false...

[Big_Blue]

No I don't mind sharing load data.
First I have no way yo measure FPS sadly.
As for load data I am using 19gr 4895 in these loads.
It seems my casts are most accurate underloaded some.
I have used both 4895 powders with the same results.
I also used 4198 at 20 gr for good accuracy but it's dirty.
As a side note I make my own gas checks now too.
I'm getting a good 57 grain boolit with the gas check on it.
all in all I can't see buying bullets again.
That is to say 55 grainers.
I might plunk down the money for.some 65 grainers until some one makes a die for that weight.

Do you have any way to compare a lead poured boolit against a store bought bullet of the same weight? If you do the powder on both, the only difference would have to be the projectile.

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

I guess Im not following your queston??
You mean comparing how they look after impact??
The main thing I found was when I started they ( the casts) where wildly inaccurate.
I posted that here I believe.
I had cast pistol boolits and some larger rifle rounds.
But this small .224 no.
In the begining with " full powder loads " via Lee and other books I had what I called a slice.
they were consistantly high and right even at close range 50 yards.
If I tried longer distance I didn't even get an impact on a 4' x 4' target!!
this after disgussion here and several other sights made me look at two things.
One.. my charge.
and two my sizing.
Now Lee does go into great length about hardness testing of your casts and matching powder load to that.
BUT I was too cheap to buy a hardness tester.
( got a birthday request from the woman to get me one )
anyway I had to go by trial and error with my loads to achieve good consistant hits.
I essentially lowered my powder charges all the way till it fired like a .22LR
this of course was very flat, and very accurate BUT not enough power to work the AR's action and cycle the spent case from the chamber and load the next round to fire.
Then I brought up the load a grain at a time till I got good consistant hits AND a correctly working bolt and rechambering following round.
I have done this with four powders now for this round
and when more powder comes available I'll add more.
Possibly this next spring I'll head over to the local gun.club.and.get some FPS measurements and if I do I'll post it.
Funny because Lee talks about working up a load and that's just what I found I had to do.
You know I read the book over the years BUT I never really read.the book till now...

[doctorggg]

RNG,
I thanked you yesterday for sharing your data. Obviously that means all your hard work. Somehow it didn't get posted. I believe your thinking is very logical. To get that kind of accuracy from an AR at 110 yards would be greatly satisfying to me. Keep up the good work and keep us posted. Be Blessed. Greg

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

thanks Greg.
I.was responding to Blue in my last Comment.
I figured once I got a bunch of Data I would send it along so others can also cast for their ARs.
This will most likely be next spring as Im in fall get the honey do list done before snow flies!!
Hahahha
I will try and include lead mix
SOME and powder used as well as FPS if the local range will let me fly a few downrange..
and a variety of powders across the spectrum

[runfiverun]

23 grs of 4895 is giving you 2800+ fps from a 20" barrel. measured at 10'
how do I know this you ask? that's littlegirls everyday cast load from her 1-9 twist AR.

18 grs works better with Dacron.
a harder alloy [harder than ww's] generally shoots better in the ar rifles.
the imr version is a bit more consistent at the higher velocity's/pressures than the H brand.



never mind what lee says, if you follow his writings you'll end up stopping where he predicts you will.

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

Well I DIDN'T Stop where Lee predicted as there is NO LOAD DATA for a cast .224 bullet in Lee's book.
What I was refering to was his writings on working up a load.
I read it BUT didn't read it.
As for what Im pushing in FPS that is your guess via regurgutation of load data either from the manafacturer or another load manual.
The reason you don't know what I'm pushing down range any more than I do is Your failing to take into account the lead, wheelweight, linotype, antimum mix I'm using in my casts.
The bullet will undoubtably fly different than factory jacketed ammo as it has different properties.
In the end I COULD have made that same *** out of U and me assumption but I will wait and for those who want to know via real experience of over a thousand.rounds down range with my own cast bullets and my.own home made gas checks for when I can acually measure it.
In the end YOU may be right.

[runfiverun]

no it's measured from my chronograph.
and it is with a cast boolit.

I don't do load book regurgitation I test my stuff with my guns and my loads.
I rarely share my loads on any website because they are not listed in a manual anywhere they are true H/V cast boolit loads.
there are NO books with this data in them.

if you don't want any help from someone that has done this already .......... never mind.
this is why there won't be an AR sub-forum here.

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

again YOUR bullets will fly different than mine. Your initial post was insulting to say the least.
No big deal.
I spent my life training military and police believe me Ive seen my share of self appointed know.it alls.
So you have your own load data and aparently consulted NO manuals.
WOW you must have used the force.
maybe the mediclorians told you how to do it...

[runfiverun]

nope it's called experience.
my boolits will fly differently than yours because I took the time to measure my rifle and DESIGNED a proper boolit.
I then had that boolit cut for a group buy so that OTHERS that paid attention could also shoot their AR type rifles at jacketed velocity's.
http://heavymetalmolds.com/store/ind...225_62_1_1.jpg
if you'd like to do the same I could save you a lot of time and effort but you don't want to know why things work like they do.
here is the mold too bad it'll not be cut again any time soon, and I have never seen a used one for sale.
http://heavymetalmolds.com/store/ind...60_124_3_1.jpg
here is another for the 9mm's it alleviates issues found in them too, and will shoot to full jacketed velocity's barring throat issues with the gun.

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

wow you do piss further than me Oh my

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

there is an interesting old story about Buddah.
He is walking along a road and comes upon a river.
Crossing the river is a small string line ferry.
For two bits you get a ride.
As Buddah waits for the return of the ferry a man comes out from under a tree and exclaims "BUDDAH I am so happy to see you master I have been here under this tree for twenty winters meditating and now I can walk across the river w/out the ferry watch"
and the man proceeds to walk across the river.
When he returns he asks Buddah " Well what do you think?"
Buddah replies that's great but you could have paid two bits and been on to.do something REALLY importaint with your life.
WHY ON EARTH WASTE money on having a new 9mm mold made??
Seriously if.you couldn't make any of the.others work
well ..
lets just say It's a poor farmer who blames his tool.
you have reinvented the wheel amazing

[runfiverun]

yep made the old wheel rounder.
I could drive a Yugo but have a mustang so what?
I still get there, one is just a whole lot cooler and I get there 5 times sooner.

enjoy your AR-yugo.

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

too funny cause mustangs are factory cars but...
look so far Ive had no problems with factory dies.
I get what I call very good accurate results
A good friend of mine ( ret Col. US army ) only shoots what I load for him. As well as several other "old friends"
Thats what I care about.
When ammo for ARs got scarce they knew I cast for many other rounds and aked me to look into it.
Now you can claim ( here on the internet ) all the expertise you want BUT
in the past year and a half I found NO load info
regarding this round. From the Usual experts Like Lee
AND the self appointed ones like you.
The originator of this post was the first I saw.
and even that didn't have too much info.
So I set out to working out loads ( with available powders) which wasn't much.at the time.
again 18 months later and close to two thousand rounds
I'm pretty happy with my result.
So for those of you who are NOT going to re-invent the wheel
Cause.you don't have to
I'll keep posting data as I.work up new loads.
as for my friend here the Anakin
of.the reloading world your just too awsome
for me to compete with I sh#%
you D%&* must just drag on the floor..
In the end it is NOT the fastest punch it's the one that gets there first.
and you sound like the guy who goes out of his way to pass someone on the road ENDAGERING everyone only to be one car ahead at the next light.

[Love Life]

That escalated quickly.

[runfiverun]

claim??
I have shown proof in front of witnesses from this sight [including the site owner] what I said are not claims they are facts.
I'd imagine if I were just making claims I'd have been called out [and proven wrong] 20,000 posts, a few pictures, chrono results, and some live in hand verified targets ago.

maybe you should just read the rpm theory sticky's and see why you can't do it, I'm sure Larry will be glad to help you out there.



yeah Richard it picked right up.

[Love Life]

Is my usual name censored? I've noticed people using my full name recently.

[arunninghorsegoeswild]

I still am not sure what it is.your thinking I haven't been able to do??
You keep implying that somehow what Im doing.os.wrong because it's different than what your doing.
But what Im doing IS working.
You even said " I don'y post load data blah blah
So I did and will.
I would say sorry I don't have a chrono
and I would say sorry
I didn't plunk down big money to have "special" dies made but realistically I didn't need to do those things.
Im getting more accurate results than factory and am happy.
So I am missing your point??
Do think because my boolits are not star bellied snetches they are not special??
I simply don't see first what your angle and second if you wont post your load data why you care that I do
and third why you wish to make the assumption .of what the FPS of my loads would be.
I was asked and I gave an honest answe
then you decided to assert your assumptions.
It matters not a hill of beans realistically.
Im just not following really any of your points.
I get it your special and Im a dolt
I get ur making that point but the real question is why??
what I am doing is working very well
so yeah??