shot size for home defense

[Lloyd Smale]

I know theres so controversy about this and i myself side with jeff quinns you tube video. I actually shot a deer at close range once with fine shot. It wasnt intended as i though the gun had buck shot in it. It killed that deer dead on the spot. I dont usually load fine shot for home defense. I like #3 or #4 buck but sure wouldnt feel undergunned with 6 shot in my shotgun if someone was comming into my bedroom. Watch his video and let the flaming begin! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3RV...layer_embedded

[725]

We discussed changing the SWAT teams ammo to #4 buck from # 00 buck. Never happened. I thought it was a good idea. Killed critters with #3 buck and can attest to it's efficacy.

[Ole]

My bedside shotgun is loaded with 6 shells of 16 pellets x #1 buck. Winchester factory ammo.

[turmech]

the main advantage of small shot inside the home would be it is not passing through wall and killing other family menbers.

[UNIQUEDOT]

I want number 1 or o in mine especially in the wintertime. After seeing the crime show i mentioned in the other thread i certainly do not want to rely on bird shot to reach the vitals and deliver enough shock to guarantee he wont be able to return fire before he stops breathing.

I also realize that deer have been dropped with a single shot from a 12 ga. target load of number 8 shot. I know some one that did it and even Durwood Hollis said he had done it, but if it takes a dozen shots at only a few feet away to kill a 16 year old girl i definitely don't want it near my HD shotgun.

There is also the possibility of needing the same gun for outside the home at extended ranges. My dad told me about an argument that broke out between a couple of idiots he was visiting and one of the idiots went to his car and got his shotgun (since the other one used his to force him to leave) and he sprinkled the guy in the doorway with birdshot and he returned a load of buckshot killing the guy.

I also had a cousin that was accidentally shot with a load of number sixes (can't remember the range, but it was more than a few feet) He went home and picked the shot out of his body and never went to the hospital.

[geargnasher]

Everyone differs in their needs and opinions on what will serve those needs best, so there's nothing to argue about really, other than the fact that birdshot is deadly at close range. Anyone who's done any real shooting with shotguns knows that a 2" distribution of birdshot is going to do about the same damage to flesh, or worse, than the same distribution of round balls.

Personally, I keep a large-caliber revolver in the bedroom and 00 buck in the front and back door guns. My reason? I might need to shoot through the front door from the inside, and there are no neighbors close enough to be in danger. Someone else's perceived needs will likely be different. The main thing is have something, know how to use it, and consider collateral damage beforehand. Have a defensive plan based on your situation.

Gear

[35remington]

Birdshot under penetrates.

That's a problem in every scenario I can think of, even 9 foot ranges, where it still under
penetrates.

No credible ballistics source recommends birdshot, even for home defense. A load that reliably penetrates bad guys will also penetrate walls. No way around that. No wall penetration, no effective penetration of a human, either.

Fortunately, the "recommendation" of birdshot for any defensive purpose is being discredited. That's a good thing.

[turmech]

I recall bird shot being mentioned on several of the shooting shows for a home defense round used inside of the home. The main reason for it was for the safety of others in the home. It made me test it. I made a mock up wall. The results made me feal more comfortable shooting at bad guy in my home knowing I would not likely hurt one of my children in another room. After all thats what I would be trying to protect.

I am sure bird shot is not the best man stopper, but I don't want to get shot 6 times with bird shot from 10 feet. It would take the fight out of me. The other day I had to kill a raccoon with rabies at my house #6 pretty much took his head off at 5 yards.

Outside of the home I would rather OO buck.

[Flinchrock]

Get hit in the face with 1 1/8 oz of lead ANYTHING at 1200fps,,,and try to tell me that your not gonna change your plans,,,yeah, just go ahead and try!!!

[nicholst55]

Read a thread on this subject some time back on another forum. A fella responded who is an inner-city trauma nurse, and who routinely encounters gunshot wounds. He stated that of all the living GSW victims he had encountered who were shot with a shotgun, none had been shot with buckshot. Even at quite close range (hallway distances), birdshot routinely fails to break ribs and penetrate the chest cavity. His words, not mine.

Granted, some of those non-fatal birdshot wounds were literally a bloody mess, but the wound was (relatively) superficial.

I keep my home shotgun loaded with buckshot of some persuasion based on this and other first-hand experience.

[turmech]

I don't think there is any argument that small shot= small mammals large shot = large mammals. I also understand my thoughts are in the minority, but I think the following two potential news stories would demonstrate my thinking.

Late last night a local man was killed in his home by a felling assailant. The intruder was later captured suffering from several shotgun wounds. He will be survived by his wife and four children.

Two poeple lay dead after a shooting late last night. A man shot and killed an intruder and stray buckshot from shotgun killed his five year old son.

For me there is no situation where I would fire anything other than bird shot in my home. My homes layout would not allow any safe discharge of anything larger. This may not be the same for every one.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Here's an interesting video on scatter gun ammunition and their abilities to penetrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievbU...ure=plpp_video

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess one of the problems with making an across the board statement about it is fine shot varys alot in size. Big differnce between #4 and #9 and how well there going to penetrate. Also is a big differnce in 5 yards and 15 and the biggest variable in wheter your going to incapasicitate an intruder enough to stop him or kill him is going to be just like with any other gun shot placement. Lots think just because they have a shotgun they can just aim in the gereral direction and pull the trigger. Shot someone in the shoulder or in the leg with a 12 guage and its not going to kill them. Shoot someone in the brain with a 22 and they will drop on the spot. Ive got two main home defense shotguns. A 12 and a 20 guage pump. the 12 sits by the front door and the 20 by my wifes side of the bed. Her gun is done a bit differnt. Its got an aimpoint on it that is never shut off. She was never told a shotgun can just be pointed and uses the sight. Its loaded with 3inch #3 buck. I wouldnt want to be on the wrong side of it.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

To each his own, but 00 buck is staying in mine.

[Lefty SRH]

I guess I'm armed with both. In one pump I have high brass #4's and in the other pump I have OO buck. I concerned about passing thru walls as I have a small child in my house.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

tell ya what when i turkey hunt i would not think of using #6 shot or smaller
to hunt them 20lbs birds with so in my H/D shotgun i'll stick with OO buck

[Rick Hodges]

My vote is #4 Buck. 00 and 0 just don't pattern worth a hoot and tend to penetrate a lot more. Take a typical short bbl. riot gun (ie open choke) and pattern it at 20-25 yds. with 00 buck. Repeat the test with #4 buck. I think you will be a believer.

My department changed over to #4 buck some 20 yrs. ago and never looked back.

[HangFireW8]

the main advantage of small shot inside the home would be it is not passing through wall and killing other family menbers.

At room distances, birdshot can and will go through 2 layers of drywall and kill on the far side. This is easy enough to test with 2 pieces and a jug of water.

HF

[35remington]

Rick, Federal's Flite Control 00 ammo has made your department's choice of #4 buck a needless liability. Time to "look back."

Turmech, could you post a link to that tragedy, please? I notice in one of those cases, birdshot didn't work. The other problem would have been solved with better judgement.

[turmech]

I find it kind of funny some say bird shot won't kill a bad guy. And some say it will kill a loved one through 2 layers of sheet rock. Sounds like bird shot discriminates and is only dangerous to good guys.

I did test it several years ago. I felt a lot safer with bird shot. I actually watched both videos that members posted this morning and they only confirmed my feelings.