Heavy Bullets in 32 S&W?

[Green Frog]

OK guys, I'm just finishing a super great visit with Dale53. We broke in my new NOE314008 (PB - 4 cav) mould and it was like a dream watching those bullets drop out 4 at a time all shiny and round! Dale put the 313 sizing die in his Star Lubrisizer and I must have prepped up about 7-800 of them... whatever it took to fill the container he provided; then being a good guest, I left him a couple of hundred to experiment with as well.

Now for the question(s.) This mould was as advertised, coming in at 120 grains, almost on the nose, with WW based alloy sweetened with just a little tin. I'm not doubting that I can find/develop loads for them to use 327 Fed Mag brass and 32/20 brass, but I got to wondering about making up a 120 grain 32 S&W load to shoot in my I- and J-frames. If they will stand up to the 155 grain 38 S&W loads, is there any compelling reason to fear starting development of these 120 grain loads in the smaller case of the 32 S&W to shoot in these guns? I would be interested in a "defense only - shoot sparingly for practice" load and/or a "use all the time with impunity" load if such could be found. Otherwise, it's back to the lead pot to cast up a bunch of 313492s for the little guys, and do a lot of shooting with my Ruger 327 FM BH and my S&W M&P 32/20.

I've used the search function and trolled around (in the positive sense) for this load, but it has eluded me thus far... it might be right under my amphibian nose, but I can't seem to find it. Any and all help will be richly appreciated.

Froggie

[Tank56]

You can do it but you have to be careful, I weigh every load. Start with 1.5 grains of Bullseye and use 2 grains as your max. Some of these smaller cases don't show over-pressure signs as well, or clearly as the larger cases do.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have used the 3118 quit a bit in my 32 S&W Long with Bullesye.I'd have to check the charge data tough but is about 2g i believe.It shoots very well.

George

[Green Frog]

I have used the 3118 quit a bit in my 32 S&W Long with Bullesye.I'd have to check the charge data tough but is about 2g i believe.It shoots very well.

George

Thanks Tank, and HMP. I've shot the original 3118 in my 32 S&Ws, but it comes in at 115 or less depending on alloy, and that was sort of my upper limit. I'm in new territory with this slight redesign that is so much heavier. I feel good about using it for the dash 20s and the 327, but when I've been shooting only 2.1 gr of Bullseye behind a 100 gr bullet, the extra 20 grains of resistance at least gets my attention. I really don't want to stress any of my little I-frames unnecessarily. Thanks again for the input, and I am still soliciting ideas here!

Froggie

[Bret4207]

My only 32 mould for several years was a 311316 which drops about 120. I used it with SR-7625 and either Red Dot or BE in 32 S+W brass with success. But- I was using it in Remington #4 and #6 rifles. I'd look through the older manuals and see what's recommended. IIRC I was using loads in the area of 1.3-1.5 gr's 7625.

Ken Waters has an outstanding article on the 32 S+W in Pet Loads.

[Dark Helmet]

Tried to run QL with the 314-120 RF bullet (.640 long with a .300 nose) to give the OP a ballpark figure, but QL said 1 gr. Bullseye was 2.4 times the case capacity when loaded long to 1" OAL. QL has the case capacity as 5.4 grains water. Can any one give me a measured capacity that makes more sense?

[williamwaco]

I have used the 3118 quit a bit in my 32 S&W Long with Bullesye.I'd have to check the charge data tough but is about 2g i believe.It shoots very well.

George

Ditto. But I don't remember the actual charge.


.

[Slowpoke]

Search ED Harris articles. He loads the saeco 322 in both the I and J frame

Your buddy Dale should Know the Answer, as I see him post quite a bit on the CBA forum.

Have fun

[Mk42gunner]

Dark Helmet,

I just made a dummy using the 314-120 RF in a .32 S&W case at 1.00 inch OAL. I couldn't get the water to go into the case without a syringe. I will try after giving my dogs their shots.

I will say that after seeing the boolet in that short cse, I am going to stick with the S&W Long or larger for ~120 grain boolets.

Robert

[FergusonTO35]

I would be interested in running these in my Charter Undercovette .32 magnum. Love those .32's, in revolver and auto flavors!!

[Green Frog]

and a dope-slap to the forehead. I typed "32 S&W" while knowing full well that I needed info for the 32 S&W Long! It would be pretty frustrating to try to get any successful performance out of that little short case with a 120 grain bullet. Mea Culpa!

So anyhooo let me restate the "challenge" I am facing. I have the new NOE 314008 bullet, which is about 5 grains (which is about 4%) heavier than the old Ideal version. I want to load it in my new Ruger 327 FM BH, which should be no problem (though some tried and true loads would be appreciated.) The difficult part of the equation is loading this same 120 grain bullet in the 32 S&W LONG. If anyone has experience with a bullet this heavy in the 32 S&W L, I would love to hear from you. Brett 4207's load for the 311316 looks like a good place to start. Brett, is yours a custom or altered mould? You're about 8 grains heavier than my Lyman/Ideal charts show that bullet being. Are you shooting with or without gas checks?

Apologies for getting everyone chasing down the wrong rabbit trail, but as always thanks for any and all help you will provide.

Regards
Green (red faced) Frog

[Dark Helmet]

Frog , how much does your brass weigh? I'll match it up with some I have and try QL again.

[Slowpoke]

S&W 31 is a stout little revolver for its size.

4 inch barrel S&W Model 31 .32 S&W Long chrono data:

Win. 98 gr. LRN 667, 15 Sd
Aguila 98 gr. LRN 749, 11 Sd
PMC 98 gr. LRN 767, 17 Sd
Magtech 98 gr. WC 737, 18 Sd
Fiocchi 98 gr. WC 590, 28 Sd

120-gr. Saeco #322, crimped in normal crimp groove
1.6 Bullseye 643, 30 Sd
1.8 Bullseye 700, 25 Sd
2.0 Bullseye 721, 18 Sd

Saeco #322, seated out 1.320" crimped in top lube groove to feed in Marlin 1894 Cowboy
2.0 Bullseye 701, 10 Sd
2.5 Bullseye 797, 24 Sd Max. for S&W Model 31,
6.0 #2400 824, 26 Sd --930 fps in Marlin, but unburned powder in revolver.

Little Dandy Rotors #00 (1.7 BE) and #0 (2.2 BE) are what you need. I have found the listed charges are the most you can expect and that rotors usually throw about 0.1 grain less, which is OK. Dump ten charges on scale each time you set up, then you know.

Last edited on Wed Jan 18th, 2012 12:14 pm by Ed Harris

[Bret4207]

GF, mine is the standard Lyman GC version, circa late 1970's. I used it in 32S+W, 32 S+W Long and 32-20. All but the 32-20 were rifles. In the 32 S+W and Long I used it sans GC. For the Long I'm pretty sure I used Lyman data right out of the 3rd edition for the 311008.

I realize the 316 is supposed to be about 115grs, but mine have always gone 118-120 or a smidge more. I didn't worry a whole lot about that extra weight, didn't know enough to. I just started low and worked up.

BTW- the 32 S+W will shoot right along side the Long with the same boolits up to 900-950 fps IME. Past there you need the case capacity the Long and larger rounds offer.

[NoZombies]

GF,

I have shot bullets as heavy as 140 gns in the .32 S&W long.... very slowly, but they were surprisingly accurate.

The 110-120 grain weight range is actually a fairly sweet spot in most of my revolvers, and my loads in those weights normally involve 2 grains of bullseye.

For the I-frames, I would download that to 1.8 grains. It wont be fast, but the revolver will digest them all day long without complaining.

I found that I got exceptional penetration in wet newspaper with the 110 grain 31133 even with velocities as low as 600 FPS. Of course, at those speeds the HP didn't even begin to open.

[FergusonTO35]

No Zombies, you seem to be as big a .32 fan as I am. Do you have any pet loads for the .32 Auto with a 90 grain boolit?

[NoZombies]

No Zombies, you seem to be as big a .32 fan as I am. Do you have any pet loads for the .32 Auto with a 90 grain boolit?

It's been a while since I've loaded for the .32 auto, but I just checked my excel spreadsheet, and it looks like I have 2 loads for bullets in the 88-93 grain range for the 32 auto.

Load one:

88 grain RN, (bullet designed for the 32 S&W short) cast soft, sized .313" and lubed with NRA lube. Loaded to .985" OAL over 1.8 grains Vithavouri N310.

My notes on the load say:
"Mild load, good accuracy"

Load two:

Lee 93 grain RN. Cast soft, sized .313" Lubed with Recluse lube (45-45-10)
loaded .980" OAL over 1.7 grains tite-group.

My notes:
"Consistent, mild"

The above loads were safe in my guns, I take no responsibility over anyone's use of the information in their own loading, or any results therefrom.

[FergusonTO35]

Sounds good, I'll give that Titegroup a try. I just ordered a Lee SWC 90 grain mold. What kind of .32 Auto pistols do you shoot?

[Green Frog]

I tried 1.5 gr of Bullseye behind these bullets yesterday and got good results. I was shooting at "targets of opportunity" so do not have group sizes, but results so far look promising. 125 gr (my actual weight measure) did give somewhat more recoil than the 100s I'd been shooting.

Froggie

[Dale53]

I compared the NOE bullet to my Group Buy 100 gr Keith. The Keith actually seats deeper into the case (by a smidgen) than the NOE bullet. That should help keep pressures lower than otherwise. 1.8 grs of Bullseye with the NOE bullet sounds doable. Ed Harris' data would seem to confirm this.

The next time you get up here, we can chronograph the load. That should be interesting...

Dale53