Pederisoli sights

[montana_charlie]

I have heard all of the ( throw them in the river, in the trash ,recycle bin answers).

Yep, there is a select group of guys who will pounce on every opportunity to say that. Sometimes (like this time) they take a surprisingly long time to show up, but they can be counted on just like the sunrise.

I still want to use one on an old rifle I have ( if I like them will look at better ones)

The question is ,
when installing them on an unknown rifle that is not drilled and tapped for them.
If you set the elevation at (0) at what range should you be ? 200 yards , 100 yards?
The rifle I am thinking of installing it in has a short tang and to get it installed I will have to either cut out part of the cheekpiece or install where I cannot get my hand around the pistol grip.
Any help appreciated

The sight is set in a base, and the base is cut to fit the rifle.
In some cases the sight will be pretty far forward (Winchesters) and therefore higher in relation to the bore that others (Sharps) where the pivot point is further back.

It is the relation to the bore that answers your question, and can only be determined after you mount the base on the tang.

Like Mr. McDowell said, if you can set the elevation low enough to 'look through' your regular sights, that should answer your question.

Having seen your pictures, you may end up shortening that Pedersoli base a half-inch, or so, to fit better on your tang.

CM

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Charle,

I have hosted matches since 1996 on the ranch, seen folks struggle with those sights and be very very unhappy with them in a match setting. Thats a fact, I deal in those period! Dress em up put all the lipstick on em you want, a T--d is still a T---d. They are user unfriendly and difficult to run in a fast pace setting. That Honest years of observation. And years of Match shooting observations is something you dont have friend.

If you dont like Honesty then recon you dont need to read my posts.

The Lunger

[EDG]

Not many people shoot in matches. Most sight in and leave them.
The super elcheapo Pedersoli will do that and fold down out of the way on most rifles. The more expensive Pedersoli Soule sigh has the hinge point set too low with the long extended apertue. It does not fold down so well especially if the elevation puts the eye piece right on the point of the comb.
Given the $250 to $400 price tag of the "right" sights most people will just do without.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

EDG,
I spose your right, Guess I just never could figure why spend the money for a decent rifle then go all cheapoo on sights. But you see it even with modern Rifles and junk scopes a lot at the local ranges.

Most of my experience is of course with people coming first time to a match and finding out their equipment is not even remotely up to the task. Be very upset and not have a good first time out, some never return and park the rifle in a closet or sell it.

I often at known ranges varry my elevation on a given day due to temp and light and humidity a good bit. So lock and leave it is not in my dope book, at extended ranges this is much more of an effect I will say.

Excellent windage correction and repeatablity are paramount even for just shooting for fun in my book. Of course it all depends on how much you want to personally spend as you pointed out.

Case in point couple years back at Alliance, fella asked me about the MVA XLR sight So I got mine out showed it too him, he asked the cost, told me it was too expensive, he could not afford that, while he was pulling a Cancer Nail outa his shirt pocket pack. While he lit up, i asked him how much he smoked a day, straight out said a pack and half. I mentioned thats about 6 bucks a day, 60 every 10 days or 180 a month. $560 every 3 months, well over 2 grand a year?? he just said, well umm ahhh well, I said you can afford over 2000 a year for those things? Mr I told him, your an Idiot.

KW
The Lunger

[Don McDowell]

For the type of shooting some do, these lock and leave em sights work ok.. But even in the most rudimentry gong matches, a loose,sloppy or hard to adjust sight will leave a person in a slump. at 800 yds a couple of hundreths slop in a sight will throw an otherwise good shot off target.I had a parts unknown borchardt sight that would throw itself off of a 15 inch target at 300.
It's not uncommon at places like the Quigley to encounter bright eyed bushytailed first time shooters with their new rifle and the pedersoli/uberti sights. By the end of the first day they'll already be talking about the things they need for the next time, and by the end of the match on Sunday there's a better than average chance you'll see them strolling along with a new set of MVA's or at the very least an MVA catalog complete with order form...

[45bpcr]

Hey Johnboy,
I know homer!
I also own one Pedersoli rifle equiped with thier sights, a Gibbs. I installed a hadley eye cup on it and it's - usable. I don't shoot the gibbs in any matches though, it's just a fun gun.
My Browning Creedmoor has the stock AMT sights and they work well.
My Sharps 1874 has a MVA #101 with a Magnum Hadley eye cup and is a wonderfull instrament to use.

I found that with the Pedersoli sight, the angle of the staff in relation to elevation was key to a good sight picture due to the lenght or depth of the eye cup's mounting "tube" As elevation increases your looking down through the tube at the front site and getting a fuzzy sight picture. There is a set screw in the sight base to adjust this, and for recreational shooting works well. I think I'd have a hard time with it in a match though. Heck, I have a hard time in a match anyways

I'll try to post some pics tonite of what I'm talking about.

45bpcr

The last pic is looking back to the firing line from Homer

[Beekeeper]

Thank you for the info Charlie!
And thank the rest of you for your comments!
The rifle will never be shot in any kind of a competition and is my fun rifle.
I kind of use it as a test bed for other projects.
It was never designed for a vernier sight so a test and trials period is what I am doing.
I realize most of you have Sharps and Remingtons with the latest and greatest gear on them but I have a question for you.
"Did you start out BP shooting with the Latest and greatest " or did you gradually learn what is best for you in particular and gravitate to it?
Since I fired my first BP round less than a year ago and the rifle is not up to your standard (being a Martini.Mauser which seems to have gotten lost in the conversation) I think the Pedersoli will do just fine to start and will give me insight into vernier sights which is what I was looking for to start with.
Thank you all for your comments and help.
If I ever get it to work I will post pics and data of it
Thanks again ,all


beekeeper

[John Boy]

45bpcr ... Your pictures give folks a good idea of what a sight picture looks like for a 1000yd range. Few BPCR shooters experience this: a pin head dot of Homer even in good light conditions and the challenge sighting in on an 48" x 82" silhouette that is half the visual size when Homer goes into the shadows after 11:00AM. A NRA 1000yd target is 72" x 72" for comparison. When the Whooong sound comes back down to the firing line though - Sweet Music! Even Sweeter driving up to Homer and there a lead splashes in the 20" Bullseye (last year's size). Prior years I painted the a 10" bullseye

How'd you like the 2011 paint job I gave Homer? I give him a new paint job each year and last year thought it was fitting to paint his hoofs! He sure does look ratty this year... Major refreshment needed!

Question - looking back from Homer in your picture ... what did the club do in front of Homer with the 'fans' across the range? Guess I'll have to find out the details in a couple of weeks ... my first 2012 trip to Ridgway.

Even am going to bring my Swiss K31 with 190gr VLD's to test my eyes on the coyotes on the 1000yd high bore range. Will have a 308 with a scope for a back up. In total, 1000+ reloads plus 22LR BP reloads. About a dozen rifles in total. And of course, the majority as BPCR rifles

re: Your fuzzy ocular sight picture. This is due to the vernier not being perfectly shimmed to have it exactly vertically/horizontally in plumb. You need to use 2 bubble levels to make the determination: 1 on the receiver and the other on the vernier staff. You'll probably have to shim the vernier base to bring all into plumb and into alignment with the front sight. Then the fuzziness goes away. FYI - also if you want to... plumb the vernier about an 1/8th of a bubble out of plumb on the right side. This will compensate for Coriolis Drift at 1000yds - about 3 MOA's
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/...iolisDrift.htm

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Johnboy its spin drift Aka Precession, due to the bullet twisting to the right as it bites into the air. Coriolis is for the spin of the earth that effect does show up at a mile unless you run a east west target north south you see some of it.

KW
the Lunger

[John Boy]

Kenny - your right and thanks for the correction from 'the Master' ...
Having a left or right twist will change the direction of gyroscopic drift. Bullets fired from right twist barrels drift to the right, and vise versa by the same amount, typically 8-9 inches at1000 yards for small arms trajectories. Gyroscopic drift is an interaction of the bullets mass and aerodynamics with the atmosphere that it’s flying in. Gyroscopic drift depends on the properties (density) of the atmosphere, but has nothing to do with the earth’s rotation.

[Don McDowell]

If you sort of keep watch, the ranges that are shot facing north, the scores are usually a bit better than those facing south. Or so it seems to me anyway..

[45bpcr]

Here's what I was talking about concerning the "thickness" of the Pedersoli sight.
Pic#69 is the Pedersoli
#70 is the MVA and # 71 is the AMT

When looking through the rear sight on the Pedersoli your looking through a "tube" that's nearly 3/4 of an inch long. The MVA and AMT are closer to 5/16ths of an inch.

At close range this is not to much of a problem as the rear sight is nearly on the same plane as the front sight. However, at longer ranges you'll have to "look down" at the front sight through that long tube.

For instance, in pics #76 and #77 the rear sight is adjusted for 500yds. We're gonna assume that the ruler is square with the sight staff. You can see that your actually looking over the front sight Pic #75 shows the screw that adjusts the vertical plumb of the sight. With elevation setting for longer ranges that screw can be turned out to "aim" the rear sight at the front one, but you still have the 3/4 long tunnel to look through.

Finally in pic #74 accurate, repeatable elevation adjustments can be made using the calipers you have on your loading bench.

I hope this helps in your decision

My 1st BPCR rifle was my 45-90 Browning Creedmoor. I wanted a 45-70 but got the 45-90 NIB for the same price. Didn't know at the time Browning only made 330 of em

Might as well start out with what yer gonna end up with,

45bpcr

[EDG]

We always seem to get competitive shooters trying to tell fun shooters what it takes to have fun.

[wyoduster]

Ok .. Now I need a sight too... I'm fighting with that long tube too and never realized the difference.. THANKS!
45bpcr Those pictures are SUPER!

My question.. The Kelly sight sure is pretty what do you think of them? Just because of looks I was thinking one of those...
What about Lee Shaver sights?

[Don McDowell]

If you're shooting short to midrange, and don't need alot of windage, don't overlook the MVA 130. Reasonably priced and exceptional quality. I have on for my lowall 22 for match shooting.

[45bpcr]

Curiosity got the better of me so I did some looking around.

The cheapest Pedersoli sight I found was $165.00 at Brownells

http://item.brownells.com/categories...tang-sight.htm

You can buy the Lee Shaver Economy sight for $225.00

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hst...ong/Detail.bok


Kelly and MVA sights will be approx $450.00 /$500.00 depending on what you buy.

Then I saw this Kelly sight - shawiing!
I think this will be my next sight to replace the AMT on my Browning.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Kelley_Sights_pr-4622.aspx

It's funny sometimes how we look at money. Like buying optics
Did I buy a Nightforce or such for my F rifles?
No Way!! To much money !
I bought a Sightron SIII 10x50X for only $980.00 to save money.

45Bpcr

[wyoduster]

Yea that kelly sight sure is awesome looking. I love the case coloring.. There's one on a Sharps at a Gun shop south of Concord,NH , really nice setup. I Believe I also will have one on one of my Shiloh's shortly..

[plourbag]

Kenny,
I agree wholeheartedly. Bought two Pedersoli's with tang sights (different models - both rubbish). I've stuck one on a fun 12.7 x 44 rolling block and still not sure what to do with the other. Both rifles are fine, in fact they're great, but sights are not up to scratch.

[montana_charlie]

I agree wholeheartedly. Bought two Pedersoli's with tang sights (different models - both rubbish).

Which models were they?

Were those rifles new when purchased?
If so, you are basing your opinion on the 'giveaway' sights Pedersoli includes in some of their Rifle 'packages'. They exist as 'window dressing' to make the rifle more visually appealing to the new shooter who wants to satisfy a preconceived notion about Sharps rifles.

You are not alone. Probably, the majority of people who have a poor opinion of Pedersoli sights formed that opinion after experience with the same 'giveaways'.

But, Pedersoli makes many sights, and the higher end units are at least 'serviceable' enough for general use and intermittant competition.

CM

[drcook]

I bought a Sightron SIII 10x50X for only $980.00 to save money.

Sightron uses the same glass, produced by the same folks as Leupold. I have 2 of the higher end Sightron SIII's on long range 308's. Bought 2 for not much more than 1 equivalent Leupold does.

Pedersoli did a redesign on their better grade soule sights to take the slop out of the staff. It would physically rock sideways back and forth changing your windage. The problem was not in the adjustment screw, but in the base attachment.

The other problem with them is that they are fragile. They are MIM castings and if you bump them good enough they will shatter.

As folks have stated above, the Lee Shaver economy grade sight is a better deal for the casual shooter than a Pedersoli. I would assume you could buy extra eye cups and have them drilled to different sizes the same way the Browning BPCR sight was equipped.

With a Pedersoli, you have a proprietary design for the way the eye cup screws in. With the domestic manufacturers, you can use different eye cups on different sights as long as the thread pitch is the same

You got to keep in mind that your rifle might be capable of 1 hole groups, but if the dang sight is sub par, you won't be able to realize the accuracy and will soon not be having fun, blaming it on the rifle, instead of the sight that you went cheap on.