another blackpowder cleaning post

[bigted]

i am always and constantly astonished by the ease of cleaning with this...our favorite gunpowder. when i take it for granted i seem to gravitate over to a few smokless loads and get the education all over again. sorta thusly today!

i loaded 5 rcbs paperpatch boolits over 34 grains of RL-7 . [ having been in the mood for awhile now for some smokless fun] the loading was seemless and easy compared and i had to stop every once in awhile to make sure i covered all the steps that seem so simple compared to the satisfying loading i do with my blackpowder loads...[seems like there is no romance with this smokless loading what-so-ever!! cant seem to remember what attracted me to it in the first place]... then i seated the 540 grain [paperpatched and maybe the only saving grace for me here with this lil exorcise] boolits on the powder and outside i went to shoot them. first i noticed the difference in recoil...cant really explain that...not less or more...just different somehow...then marveled at the clealiness of the cases and barrel after the 5 rounds were shot.

now i wrap up my small outting and go inside to swab the barrel down and contemplate what i just did. well i spit on a patch and swabbed up n down the bore around 5 times and naturally it were black. so i sent another spit patch thru in the same manner and it also came out the same color. now im perplexed as my blackpowder fouled barrels by this time are almost completely clean...i realize that this is smokless and may need chemicales to get the barrel clean like i want so out came the foul smelling crud that i used to enjoy so much. swabbing didnt stop for another 4 patches to get that stupid smokless fouling out completely so a clean dry tight patch would come out as white as it went in...kinda like the spitpatches i use 2 of and get the nice white clean patches out with. then i oiled the bore and to my astonishment that patch came out darker then it went it so back to scrubbing with that foul smelling crud to remove this forein substance from my barrel. at this time i began to opoligize to my winchester hiwall for subjecting it to such needless swabbing and dirt from a powder that is never to be in such a pristine rifle...[just glat i didnt take the notion to do such a dastardly deed to my 45-120].

long storie short is that my smokless days are rapidly coming to an end. the cleanup is just too involved and then im not sure it is all outta there.

compared to my blackpowder cleanup which is thusly...2 spit patches to de-foul tha barrel...followed by a ballistol mix on 1 patch ...followed by 2 clean dry patches to dry the bore then an oily patch to store away till i want some more fun. the oily patch is then used to swab down the outside metal and wood to its glorious wonder and a final wipe down with a clean towel to remove the dust grabbing oil on the outside...DONE...no leading...no jacketed bronze...no forein matter whatsoever...all natural shtuff maynard

so there is my dasturdly deed and my sincere opoligy and humble state of being for such. i wanted to fess up rite away with this sorry storie so maybe some others would not succumb to such an urge to be-spoil theri pristine rifles and maybe to reassure any new folks that indeed this is the only way to happiness and satisfaction with a yesteryear type of smiling happy contentment.

happy shooting all and may the Gods of Real powder smile on your honerable endeavers..........

[montana_charlie]

Your paper patched bullets probably didn't bump enough to seal the bore, so you got a lot of blowby.
That, alone, can make smokeless burn inefficiently, so it was probably dirtier than it normally would be.

I don't suppose you collected any patch particles for evaluation of the load.

Some may disagree with the idea that your bullets didn't bump, but to prove me wrong you'll have to catch one in a snowbank.

CM

[bigted]

nope didnt find any patch debri which i found strange. i looked for the paper bits im used to with my duplex loads but NOPE. boolit started out at .452 and patched up to .458 so really it didnt have too far to bump but that may have been the culprit. also i cant prove you wrong about the smokless not bumping as i beleive the same as you ...that the blackpowder will and does bump boolits and smokless does not with its longer burn n push.

just cant believe the dirty barrel that is normally so easy to clean...its very smooth and bright so i know its not a bumpy barrel.

the other day i shot some 375 h&h with papered boolits at full strength for jacketed and it tarnished the barrel the same. they were papered to .3785 inch so they shouldnt have needed much in the bumping dept either... been trying to get it clean since...part may have been junk from the former owner or two tho...it were built in 1956 so there have been plenty of opertunity for it to get and stay dirty so maybe some of it belongs to the previous owners.

at any rate...i sure do like the ease of cleanup with blackpowder which is just about as straight forward as it could be. i also enjoy the different phases of loading with the black as oposed to smokless...seems like an art form instead of three simple steps n done.

sooooo just preachin to the choir i guess so ill pipe down for now. thanks for your input charlie ...as always you give food for thought.

[montana_charlie]

boolit started out at .452 and patched up to .458 so really it didnt have too far to bump but that may have been the culprit.

I take it back.
I presumed that you were patching to bore diameter when I made that remark.
I might be totally wrong about what went on ... and, probably am.

CM

[bigted]

NAAA come on charlie...not you too??? i believe i was wrong in 196ty something but... just cant remember!

the 45-70 in question has shallow grooves so there is really noplace for the grim to hide...so i acount it up for that nasty smokless and maybe my putrid spit smearing it around then mixing the whole works with the thing i shoulda used in the first place to get smokless powder out...shooters choice. instead i may have made a mud pie that was far harder to remove after the witches brew was smeared down the barrel.

chemicle mixtures should be cleaned with chemicle mixtures...and all natural mixtures should be cleaned with all natural mixtures...thats my thinkin

[Seth Hawkins]

I hear ya, Big Ted. It's been years since I shot anything other than true BP. For me, it started with CAS. I eventually bought a Sharps. I use BP in everything now - rifle, pistol, shotgun, Sharps. I'm not sure I even know where my smokeless powder is. It's been displaced so many times over the past ten years to make room for cans of BP that I've lost track of it. LOL.

I usually clean my rifle at the range after a match. The other smokeless shooters watch me and can't believe how little time and effort it takes to get the bore clean. They think I'm just doing a preliminary cleaning to get the rifle home so that I can give it a "proper" cleaning.

[bigted]

i hear ya...i always invite anybody thats watchin and askin questions to peek down the bore when i run the 2 patchs and to a person they all say the same thing..."ill be damned"

[odfairfaxsub]

after im done shooting my stuff at the range, i take ballistol-water 50-50 on patches and patch it till its grey or something near that color and then put a greased patch between the nipple and hammer and spray that stuff down my barrel. i spray the lock down with it and drive the gun home with the bore up. then i drop the gun minus the wood into the tub and do the old fashion cleanning regement.

[Seth Hawkins]

after im done shooting my stuff at the range, i take ballistol-water 50-50 on patches and patch it till its grey or something near that color and then put a greased patch between the nipple and hammer and spray that stuff down my barrel. i spray the lock down with it and drive the gun home with the bore up. then i drop the gun minus the wood into the tub and do the old fashion cleanning regement.

You must be doin' this for a muzzle loader. Yep. Just saw "nipple".

[NickSS]

I have noticed over the years of shooting BPCR that when loaded with black powder the barrel is a snap to clean. One or two patches of 50-50 balistol and water followed by a dry patch and an oil patch is all it takes. When using either duplex or straight smokeless loads the barrel requires much more cleaning and even brushing to get it clean. I no longer use duplex loads but do use smokeless when I am in a hurry to load some practice ammo. The extra time cleaning is really less time than the extr time it takes to load black powder rounds. But cleaning is much faster and easer with black powder.

[TXGunNut]

You must be doin' this for a muzzle loader. Yep. Just saw "nipple".

I do it quick & easy for my frontstuffer as well. Doesn't seem to mind.

[TXGunNut]

long storie short is that my smokless days are rapidly coming to an end. the cleanup is just too involved and then im not sure it is all outta there.-bigted



It's not, if you get all that nasty stuff out you're spending way too much time with it. I'll keep fooling around with those newfangled smokeless powders but am beginning to wonder what all the fuss is about. Why in the world do I want to push those funny little j-bullets so fast when a nice big boolit pushed by Holy Black ambles out there and kills critters just as dead, even does pretty good on paper (and even steel) from time to time?

[PanaDP]

...into the tub and do the old fashion cleanning regement.

How does the regiment feel about being done in the bath?

[EDG]

>>>long storie short is that my smokless days are rapidly coming to an end. the cleanup is just too involved and then im not sure it is all outta there.-bigted<<<
These stories always make me smile. They are obviously posted just because black power residue is soluable in spit and water and smokless fouling isnt. In many cases the wrong smokless powder and wrong cleaning method is used. If skeet and trap shooters cleaned or had to clean bigted's way the shotgun sports would come to an end. RL 7 is know to be a cruddy powder so if you are OCD about a rifle bore why use it? The truth is with smokeless cleaning is not even required in many instances. With Alox 2138 based lubes the bore is well protected from corrosion much like a .22 rimfire. If you are doing all that cleaning you don't have to unless you are just trying to prove a point.
To clean without having to post simply run a couple of patches through with a little Hoppes and then let it set 2 weeks or until you get ready to use it again. Then just run another wet patch through and a couple of dry ones and start shooting. If this is too much labor, open the breech, hold it with the muzzle straight down and give it a little shot down the bore with Barricade. Stand in the corner with the muzzle down on a cloth in a plastic cup. After it drains a day or two put it in the safe. Wipe out with a wet patch and a couple of dry patches when you get ready to shoot again.
I know this works. I have used it on my rifles and shotguns for about 3 decades. I started doing this because it was too much trouble to clean a skeet gun fired at 100 plus targets a week on Saturdays and sometimes on Sundays too. None of the skeet guns ever rusted and none of them have chromed bores - that went on for 7 years straight one upon a time. I still use that method or something similar.

[Dan Cash]

How does the regiment feel about being done in the bath?

I did that once but my dear wife was miffed. There after, I clean the muzzle loaders in the toilet. Just don't forget to flush!

[bigted]

LOL...i dareson do so in the toilet. my toilet is a fairly large hole in the ground with a quaint smaller log house built over it with a nice clean hole that if done rite...you wont freeze your tush to it when its 50 or 60 below zero. but i recon you could use the toilet here if the spirit moved ya in thet direction...LOL