Making molds for casting cores???

[customcutter]

I started cutting out some aluminum blocks today to make molds for cores. For the present I plan on making 2 molds. One for cores for .223 and one for cores for .45. The blocks for .223 are .5"X 1.25" X 5.5." +/-. I can probably set up to drop 8-10 cores. The blocks for the .45 cores are .5"X 1.4" X 6.5". Again I think I can set up to drop 8-10 cores.

I've never smelted lead before. At first I thought I would just make the cores as long as possible then cut them off to length, swage, seat, and point form. Then I read several post about how did everyone clean their cores, cores being stripped out of the brass, etc. Prospector Howard made a statement that sounded pretty good. Mold them to length and seat, no cleaning, no fuss, no extra steps. Sounds logical to me.

I'm not going to start sorting brass by mfg., this is already way to labor intensive. I'm looking for bullets that are at least minute of intruder, but not punching a single hole at 100 yds. What length core would throw a 45 gr core, I'm assuming 9-10 grains for the brass? I'm thinking 3/16" .1875, I've got a 3/16 drill bushing to swage cores if I can't get the mold to throw consisent weights. I may make the core swaging die just for practice later, after I finish the molds. What length/diameter for swaging cores in .40 brass for .45 +/- 200gr.

Just looking for input before I start drilling holes.

Thanks,
CC

[newcastter]

Just an FYI Prospector Howard is the only one ,correct me if I am wrong, not swaging his cores to weight, every bullet swaging manufacture in the buisness recommends this be done and I highly recommend swaging cores, so it would be a good idea to plan on making a squirt die. What I did for my first core mold is I had a Lee 2 cavity blank mold drilled with a 3/16 bit about an 1"-1-1/4" long and I would just cut them down before core swaging, but I have the capability of making all sorts of different weights with the same mold. I will say that I am waiting on a six cavity mould that I am going to drill as close as I can to the core need to the make the 55gr projectile I am going to swage so there is very little to bleed off to speed up the process. I am interested to hear others input on the different things being done.

[customcutter]

Newcaster,

I'll probably wind up making a squirt core swaging die. Just thought if I could get the dimensions close, it would help. I don't want to be 10 grains if I can get within 2. But like PH said, if they're withing .2 grain including different jackets, that might just be close enough, IF (big) it saves a lot of labor.

CC

[Prospector Howard]

I'm the only one? I guess I should feel "special". Maybe I should patent the idea, I'll be rich. I was under the impression that the main reason for the core swage die was for people using lead wire (because it's not all uniform size and it's hard to cut the length perfect each time), and one size fits all core molds. Oh well, call me crazy.

Just an FYI Prospector Howard is the only one ,correct me if I am wrong, not swaging his cores to weight, every bullet swaging manufacture in the buisness recommends this be done and I highly recommend swaging cores, so it would be a good idea to plan on making a squirt die. What I did for my first core mold is I had a Lee 2 cavity blank mold drilled with a 3/16 bit about an 1"-1-1/4" long and I would just cut them down before core swaging, but I have the capability of making all sorts of different weights with the same mold. I will say that I am waiting on a six cavity mould that I am going to drill as close as I can to the core need to the make the 55gr projectile I am going to swage so there is very little to bleed off to speed up the process. I am interested to hear others input on the different things being done.

[Prospector Howard]

CC, I think you'll find that you're going to need 3/4" thick stock, because you'll need that extra thickness to cut the grooves for the mold handles. Also, if you're going to make a mold to drop 8-10 cores; then a core swage die probably will be important. I made double cavity molds because it's much easier to tweak the cavities when I made them so they drop out more consistent weight and it's harder to keep the mold going consistent with that many cavities when your casting. I could be wrong though, I'm not there to see what you're doing.

[Lizard333]

Some of swage to make plinker rounds, on the cheap, and some of us, do a better job with our bullets than what you can by from the store. I do both. My plinkers are done with 22LR cases as half inch groups are acceptable. For my other needs, I need them to make one nice small ragged hole. Doing both of these requires the use of a core squirt die. +/- a tenth of grain or two wont cut it for my needs. Having spent better than 2K on just one calibre of dies, kinda gets me to make the best bullet I can make. I also sort all of my 22LR brass by manufacture and then by weight.

[customcutter]

CC, I think you'll find that you're going to need 3/4" thick stock, because you'll need that extra thickness to cut the grooves for the mold handles. Also, if you're going to make a mold to drop 8-10 cores; then a core swage die probably will be important. I made double cavity molds because it's much easier to tweak the cavities when I made them so they drop out more consistent weight and it's harder to keep the mold going consistent with that many cavities when your casting. I could be wrong though, I'm not there to see what you're doing.

PH, yes if I were using regular mold handles. I'm thinking something different, wooden handles on the front and a hinge on the back. Is casting 8-10 boolits in molds different from casting 2 boolits in a mold? I've never done any casting. Does heating and or cooling present a problem with one or the other? I'm not opposed to swaging cores, actually planning on making the dies and doing it, I may try to figure out how to do this commercially.

thanks,
CC

[customcutter]

My goal is to have materials that I can make bullets with when commercial parts are unavailable. If I were going to spend 2K on dies, I would cnc my lathe first and make copper bullets for all my calibers of weapons. Guaranteed repeatabiliity and no sorting of brass, swaging cores, cleaning cores, etc. I'm already 58 years old, I don't want to spend my golden years sorting brass for .223 rounds. I'd rather spend my time trying to figure out how to make the best dies I can so that others can make their bullets if they so desire.

thanks,
CC

Some of swage to make plinker rounds, on the cheap, and some of us, do a better job with our bullets than what you can by from the store. I do both. My plinkers are done with 22LR cases as half inch groups are acceptable. For my other needs, I need them to make one nice small ragged hole. Doing both of these requires the use of a core squirt die. +/- a tenth of grain or two wont cut it for my needs. Having spent better than 2K on just one calibre of dies, kinda gets me to make the best bullet I can make. I also sort all of my 22LR brass by manufacture and then by weight.

[Utah Shooter]

Some of swage to make plinker rounds, on the cheap, and some of us, do a better job with our bullets than what you can by from the store. I do both. My plinkers are done with 22LR cases as half inch groups are acceptable. For my other needs, I need them to make one nice small ragged hole. Doing both of these requires the use of a core squirt die. +/- a tenth of grain or two wont cut it for my needs. Having spent better than 2K on just one calibre of dies, kinda gets me to make the best bullet I can make. I also sort all of my 22LR brass by manufacture and then by weight.

There we go.

I think that there is starting to be a separation of sorts between making "plinkers" and making accurate match grade projectiles within the .22 cal family. Both of course need bullet making dies to accomplish this, but I feel different ways to produce "plinking" or match grade projectiles.

Newcaster, I do not think he is the only one doing it but I would not dream of dropping cores to go straight into match grade projectiles.

[customcutter]

There we go.

I think that there is starting to be a separation of sorts between making "plinkers" and making accurate match grade projectiles within the .22 cal family. Both of course need bullet making dies to accomplish this, but I feel different ways to produce "plinking" or match grade projectiles.

Newcaster, I do not think he is the only one doing it but I would not dream of dropping cores to go straight into match grade projectiles.

I think as components get harder to find you will see more people who are interested in doing "quantity vs quality". I'm only considering this because I do think there will come a time when components will not be available period, and I'm not interested in shooting unjacketed projectiles at this point. I also think that there is a "happy medium" where accuracy will have a trade off with the amount of effort involved in the end product.

BTW, I do make my own Turkey loads with tungsten shot. It cost between $60-$80 per lb. That's $10/rd just for the shot, but there isn't a commercial load available that will compare with it, and if there was you can't find it when you want/need it. Hence rolling my own.

thanks,
CC

[customcutter]

Anybody got an approx length for .1875 wire for 45 grains?

Or an approx length for <.40 wire for 200gr .45's?

I can always drill them a little deeper, or mill a little off the tops of the molds.

thanks,
CC

[Cane_man]

1 lb lead = 7000 grains

the mold is a cylinder with volume = 0.25 * 3.14 * D^2, where D = mold diameter

D = 0.1875

mold volume = depth x 0.25 X 3.14 X 0.1875^2 = d x 0.028

density = mass / volume

lead density ~ 0.41 lbs per cubic inch

45 grains converted to lbs = 45/7000 = 0.0064 lbs.

mold depth = (0.0064/0.41) / 0.028 = 0.56"


to figure out the depth of any cylindrical mold:

d = [(grains/7000)/0.41]/(0.785 X D^2)

D = mold diameter, inches
grains = desired weight of core, in grains
"/" means to divide, "^" means to square or in this case D X D


for 0.40 wire and a desired core weight of 200 grains, the mold depth would be:

d = ((200/7000)/0.41)/(0.785 X 0.4^2) ~ 0.55"

[customcutter]

Cane,

thanks for doing the math. I should have but haven't had the gumption to do anything for a couple of weeks now. Also probably can't keep my mind focused long enough. Hopefully I'll be better in a few days.

thanks,
CC

[alfloyd]

And I thought in High School that I would never need this math when I grew up.

Oh well, with Cane Man around maybe I don't.

Lafaun

[fredj338]

Well your cores will vary a bit depending on alloy & casting temp. The mold BT made is from a Lee 6cav, 11 cores at once, about 53gr. I could measure an as cast core for you but don't have any that are not final swaged yet. The cores will certainly be longer than 3/16".

I started cutting out some aluminum blocks today to make molds for cores. For the present I plan on making 2 molds. One for cores for .223 and one for cores for .45. The blocks for .223 are .5"X 1.25" X 5.5." +/-. I can probably set up to drop 8-10 cores. The blocks for the .45 cores are .5"X 1.4" X 6.5". Again I think I can set up to drop 8-10 cores.

I've never smelted lead before. At first I thought I would just make the cores as long as possible then cut them off to length, swage, seat, and point form. Then I read several post about how did everyone clean their cores, cores being stripped out of the brass, etc. Prospector Howard made a statement that sounded pretty good. Mold them to length and seat, no cleaning, no fuss, no extra steps. Sounds logical to me.

I'm not going to start sorting brass by mfg., this is already way to labor intensive. I'm looking for bullets that are at least minute of intruder, but not punching a single hole at 100 yds. What length core would throw a 45 gr core, I'm assuming 9-10 grains for the brass? I'm thinking 3/16" .1875, I've got a 3/16 drill bushing to swage cores if I can't get the mold to throw consisent weights. I may make the core swaging die just for practice later, after I finish the molds. What length/diameter for swaging cores in .40 brass for .45 +/- 200gr.

Just looking for input before I start drilling holes.

Thanks,
CC

[customcutter]

Fred,

thanks for the reply. In my question, I meant that the cores would be 3/16 diameter, either cast or swaged. I was trying to figure out how deep to drill the holes. Cane man did the math for me and figured .56 inches.

thanks,
CC

[fredj338]

When I get home, I'll measure a finished swaged core, 45gr +/-. Easiest/cheapest way to make cores IMO.

Fred,

thanks for the reply. In my question, I meant that the cores would be 3/16 diameter, either cast or swaged. I was trying to figure out how deep to drill the holes. Cane man did the math for me and figured .56 inches.

thanks,
CC

[customcutter]

Fred,

Does a 45 grain core fill a full length 22lr case? I would like to stay in the 55-60gr range. What ever it takes to fill the cases without trimming, and a slight exposed lead point.

thanks,
CC

[Cane_man]

what is the inside diameter of a 22LR case? we can figure it out, and what is the OD of your core?

[customcutter]

what is the inside diameter of a 22LR case? we can figure it out, and what is the OD of your core?

Cane, case is .201 X .72 (length is slightly domed), but that doesn't account for ogive??? Core will be 3/16, .1875.
Just thought it would be easier to ask folks what length core they were using.

thanks,
CC