45LC vs 44mag

[bigboredad]

I like both but lean toward the 44 mag its made for the presure. guys with the colt say they can push just as hard with the colt as the 44 with the right gun. i would get the 44 and it wouldnt mater what gun pistol or rifle. I find alot more once fired cases at the range in 44 than 45 colt. I love my 44 pistols and rifles they will stay with me till i die.

aint it cool we live in a land to have so many choices to fit all of our taste

[luvtn]

aint it cool we live in a land to have so many choices to fit all of our taste

Yes, we live like Kings and Queens in this land of ours. I have had a Ruger .44 mag off and on since 2004. I now have a Redhawk, a Hawes, and a S&W 629-3. Naturally I just bought a Rossi Puma in .44 mag to round out my group.
lt

[Longwood]

I recently got back into shooting after a lull.
I used to load for several calibers but decided to keep it simple and only have stuff that shoots 45 long colt and 45-70.
It sure is helping make things much easier.
I can Paper patch 45 bullets to shoot in the 45-70 and get by for years with just one mold.
I have very little body fat now and the way the 45 rifles smack my shoulder, I don't think a 44 would be as fun to shoot.

[lead chucker]

There are a lot of guys who want bigger more powerful hand guns and rifles and there is definitely nothing wrong with that but the 44 mag will still kill any thing walking this earth. Elmer Kieth is my hero.

[lead chucker]

I have a 45acp/ 45 colt black hawk convertible I like shooting them both but always find my self shooting the 45 acp cylinder. I have shot some pretty stiff loads with the colt cylinder but it's not as comfortable to shoot as my 7.5 inch red hawk with the 44 mag loads. I jus plain like the 44 mag. If I have a bunch of lee 310 gr bullets and a pound of 2400 I'm a happy guy.

[bigboredad]

I have a 45acp/ 45 colt black hawk convertible I like shooting them both but always find my self shooting the 45 acp cylinder. I have shot some pretty stiff loads with the colt cylinder but it's not as comfortable to shoot as my 7.5 inch red hawk with the 44 mag loads. I jus plain like the 44 mag. If I have a bunch of lee 310 gr bullets and a pound of 2400 I'm a happy guy.

And there ain't a dam thing thing wrong with being happy. Trust me Elmer Keith is not only a hero to you

[Lead Fred]

Had the handgun, the lever was the logical thing to do, in 44 mag

[turbo1889]

speaking specifically in reference to the quality of the engineering of the dimensions of the brass the 44-mag. is superior to the 45-LC brass. Better rim dimensions, better head strength and usually just a touch thicker brass at the mouth giving better neck tension. Over-all the brass for the 44-mag is better designed and will take higher pressures better and take more re-loads.

As far as the quality of the chamber and throat cuts usually the 44-mag. guns are also much higher quality with tighter better fitting chambers then most 45-LC guns.

However, it is also true that the 45-LC is capable of developing the same performance levels at lower chamber pressures then the 44-mag. and there is generally better bullet and load data selections available (assuming your going to stick to book loads and "off the shelf" molds).

That would make it "6 of one vs. half dozen of the other" except for one critical component. You said you were looking to get yourself a matched pair of a revolver and lever gun carbine. There are significant problems with the current offering of 44-mag. carbines both in terms of considerably and deliberately oversize barrel dimensions and too slow of twist rates offered in most of today's lever gun offerings in the 44-mag. Groove dimensions that are deliberately set-up to run 0.432"-0.434" with slow twists of 1:32,1:36, or 1:38 with many production guns is absolutely deplorable and inexcusable maliciousness on the part of the manufactures of 44-mag. lever gun carbines and so significantly tips the scales of the balance.

Long story short, if your going to buy an "off the shelf" gun for your lever gun carbine then 45-LC is your best option not because the cartridge itself is better then the 44-mag. but rather that most of the 44-mag. lever guns have been deliberately and maliciously "messed over" by most of the manufactures and they should be approached with extreme caution to the point of it being necessary to demanding to be allowed to slug the bore and measure the twist before you are willing to make a purchase of one of them.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
When I was much younger I got the old model Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44mag. loved it.
Then got the 444 Marlin in the rifle . Loved it.
They were my close timber bear guns, oddly they did just fine on deer as well. Who would of thought?
Then I got stupid & parted with both.

[bigboredad]

HI,
When I was much younger I got the old model Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44mag. loved it.
Then got the 444 Marlin in the rifle . Loved it.
They were my close timber bear guns, oddly they did just fine on deer as well. Who would of thought?
Then I got stupid & parted with both.

I feel your pain

[lead chucker]

Yup me to I bought a marlin 44 mag several years ago and traded it off for something else I had to have, been regretting it ever since. I redeemed my self a couple years ago and got a ruger 77/44 it shoots better than the marlin it has a 1-20 twist and handles the lee 310 pretty good. I shot a 1 1/4 inch group at 56 yards last weekend for me that's real good.

[Ziptar]

I want a levergun and revolver combo. I was going to get a ruger blackhawk and a marlin. Which caliber offers the most versatility to the reloader/caster?

There is no easy one size fits all .44 Mag vs .45 Colt answer, its a matter of personal preference. You will have an easier time matching up your bullets to a .45 Colt rifle and revolver then a .44 Mag.

In the end you'll pick what works best for you and what you prefer. In the real world however, in the end when the projectile hits the target the end result is basically the same its how each caliber does it thats different, however, the differences are so small they only matter on Internet forums.

Just as others have said, I've no suggestions for you, just my personal preference.

As a reloader and bullet caster I prefer the .45 Colt due to it's simplicity, versatility, and accuracy. I don't need a Magnum nor do I enjoy shooting them, just too loud and too much recoil for my liking, too harsh. For me the .45 Colt is just a sweet shooter, I can do it all day, its an absolute pleasure to shoot. It is difficult to load any ammunition that is not accurate in the .45 Colt from 140 grain round balls to 350 grain wide flat nose bullets, fast or slow, jacketed or cast. There is a wider variety of loads at my disposal. When it comes to reloading components I've seen no difference is price or availability of brass, powders, and primers. When it comes to range brass I've found equal amounts of each over the years. I've no trouble finding plenty of .45 Colt brass to trade for.

There is allot of myth and incorrect or at the very least outdated information out there about the .45 Colt. What follows is my thinking and experience with the .45 Colt, especially if we are going to compare it to the .44 Mag. I hope at least some of this is useful to you.

The fact of the matter is the .45 ("Long") Colt we use and talk about today is nothing at all like the original .45 Colt of old, today's .45 Colt and the old .45 Colt are the same in name only. It's really a newly invented caliber. It is an entirely new cartridge loaded with modern powders and used in modern firearms, best way to think of it in our modern computer age is as the .45 Colt Versions 1.0 and Version 2.0 maybe. The original .45 Colt case was a folded balloon head design, it was thin rimmed, and had a slight taper to it. Todays modern day .45 Colt brass has more in common with a .44 Magnum case in appearance, design, and strength than it does it's original namesake of 1873 origin.

I see lots of discussion about the strength of .44 Mag over .45 Colt brass, it is simply incorrect. The .45 does have less rim protrusion than the .44 but, we are talking 2/1000 of an inch in diameter, thats the thickness of the sides of a zip-lock sandwich bag, the rims are of equal thickness. The modern .45 Colt rim is much larger now than originally back in the 19th century with balloon head cases. Today's .45 Colt Brass is just as strong as .44 Mag brass, in fact Starline tests their .45 Colt brass to .44 Mag pressures and Dick Casull used regular .45 Colt brass in his development of the .454 Casull. Nowadays you'll find manufacturers use brass of equal thickness when manufacturing both calibers from the same brass stock using the same methods. Its the same strength top to bottom and left to right either way and of no consequence.

Somewhere along the way the design and manufacture of the brass changed. Then along came more modern firearms with stronger steel and designs. All of this allowed for the .45 Colt to be loaded with smokeless powder to levels never possible or even contemplated with black powder and the Colt SAA at least until Elmer Keith came along.

Elmer blew up his Colt SAA with heavy .45 Colt loads and decided we needed something better and so the .44 Magnum was born. Thats kind of funny because, the birth of the .44 mag in a round about way is what led to the "redevelopment" or "relaunch" of the .45 Colt and all it is today.

One could say Elmer even though he abandoned it, actually wound up creating that hotter and heavier .45 Colt he originally started out in pursuit of.

So the modern day ".45 Colt" is a newly invented caliber but, the guy who makes up and assigns new calibers names must have been off that day and nobody gave it a new name.

You might find this reading helpful:
Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend Heavy Bullets in the 45 Colt

I think Linebaugh says it simply and best.

In a technical sense the .45 Colt is a big caliber, large capacity case that must operate at low chamber pressure compared to many magnum rounds. The fact that it has more capacity allows this to happen. In general loadings the .45 Colt will do anything the .44 magnum will do with about 6000 to 10,000 CUP less chamber pressure, depending on the load and bullet weight used. With standard weight slugs the difference is not as wide as it is with heavy slugs.

Also just wanted to clarify some info about the 1894 also.

If Marlin would have listened to shooters instead of some pencil neck at a desk and made the gun 1 in 20" to 1 in 25", the discussion would never happen. They would have a jewel and would never be able to produce enough.

Marlin did make 1:20 twist rifles and I own one. It's an 1894 .45 Colt with a 20" microgroove barrel with a 1:20 twist, and you are right it is a jewel!

It was only when Marlin finally DID listen shooters (specifically CAS / SASS shooters) that they stopped making them. Shooters told Marlin they wanted ballard rifled barrels instead of microgroove because they felt that the deeper ballard rifleing would better chew into their ill fitting factory sized ammunition. Marlin complied and did away with the 1:20 twist microgrrove and started putting 1:38 twist ballard rifles on their .45 Colt 1894s.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fr...ve-barrels.htm

On the subject of Marlin microgroove barrels:

...the Marlin Micro barrels are similar to the legendary Harry Pope's barrels. That said they ARE accurate with cast bullets as long as the bullet is properly fitted to the bore.

Thats according to Veral Smith in his book "Jacketed bullet Performance from Cast Bullets"

I've wanted a .45 Colt Levergun for years but have never found where Marlin built there '94 w/a 16.5"-20" Barrel for a light short carbine. Instead, they've built a long, heavy 26" octagon unit for the CAS crowd.

Actually it was a 24" octagon unit, and You haven't been looking hard enough for a shorther one.... There's plenty out there.

1894S: 1988-91 45 Colt 20" Round Barrel: 984 Produced
1894S : 1993 45 Colt (*Not cataloged*): 875 produced
1894SC: 1997 .45 Colt 16.25" barrel, *Not cataloged*, Special Run for Davidsons, Lettered from Marlin: 1050 produced
1894IV Cowboy Carbine Limited: 2001 45 Colt Serial Nos 1894IVXXXX *Not cataloged*, Special Run for Davidsons, Lettered from Marlin, Rollstamped "Cowboy Limited", uncheckered , 20" tapered octagon barrel: 1000 produced
1894CBC (Cowboy Competition Carbine): 2003-2007? 45 Colt 20" octagon barrel, case finish, tuned action, blued bolt: ???? produced
1894H: 2002-2006? 45 Colt *Not cataloged*, Special Run for Big Five stores. Walnut finished hardwood stock version of 1894 & 1894C. Sold as a special for $299.95.: produced ????
And currently, 1894.45 Colt 20" Barrel (ballard rifled) produced for Cabela's 2008-Present SKU# 3034232

[44man]

Ziptar, The .44 is the only Marlin I know of that has the wrong twist.
When the .444 came out it was also 1 in 38" but they changed it to 1 in 20" and it made everyone happy.
I have measured micro groove barrels and Ballard. Both have the same rifling depth of .003", at least on those I did. I don't know what advantage the Ballard is over the micro groove? I feel they should be deeper for cast.
I love Marlin rifles but never got the .44 to shoot as good as my SBH.
My friends have other calibers like the 30-30 and they are tack drivers at 100 with cast. The 45-70 guide gun is wonderful. If I had the money, I would have one in a second!
I contacted Marlin about the .44 and they sent me a copy of Greenhill to explain it.

[paul h]

There are a lot of guys who want bigger more powerful hand guns and rifles and there is definitely nothing wrong with that but the 44 mag will still kill any thing walking this earth. Elmer Kieth is my hero.

Not saying a 44 won't kill all kinds of critters, heck elephants have been taken with 22rf's, but the 44 might not be the be all end all for the biggest of critters. A friend who's hunted extensively in AK and Africa has taken moose and cape buffalo with the 44, using SSK heavy cast bullets, and he was not impressed with the performance on game. Maybe it was the smaller meplat of the SSK bullet, makbe it was just trying to do too much with not quite enough gun.

The way I look at it is, not what will work when everything goes perfect, but what will work in the real world where you don't always get the perfect shot presentation you read about in the magazines, and you place your shot a little off the mark.

Shoot the biggest gun you can shoot accurately, and shoot it accurately.

[MasS&W]

.44. You can always download a purpose built magnum. You can't always hot load a 150 year old cartridge. They're both sweet to reload for though, no case lubing or rifle primers to fuss over.

[michiganvet]

If you are into power loads in a rifle, the answer is clear. The .45 Colt brass lacks the strength of the .44 Mag brass. Beyond that whatever your personal choice is what matters.

[Artful]

The .44 Magnum has a bigger rim. It's better in the levergun and it's more powerful even when using reloads.

Ding, what my gunsmith friend told me when I picked up a combo bigger than the 357 rossi and 357 Dan Wwesson I was using, and he added you don't have to worry about the strength of any handgun you pick up as with 45 colt strong loads.