Red Decomposition Dust

[Good Cheer]

When powder develops the red dust from decomposition, is that from nitric acid formation?
Has anyone pulled powder from oldie cartridges and found the red dust?

[mstarling]

A mixture of nitric and sulfuric acid is used to chemically bond -NO3 groups on the cellulose that is being made into smokeless powder. The excess reactive material is then cleaned out by neutralization and dilution (washing).

The red powder is caused by the degradation of the nitrated cellulose which can be aggravated by not getting the excess nitration reagents out of the mix. So, in general, the nitric acid causes the problem.

I have seem a lot of 30-02 M2 ball in which the powder was apparently not well cleaned during manufacture and it deteriorated in the ammunition. Was so bad that the primers showed corrosion penetration.

[Arnie]

Are you sure its not the metal can thats rusting and causing the red dust ? I have just opened the last of about 10 cans of imr 4350 .Some dated back to the late 40's and had rust dust in them but the powder worked fine . The smell of vinegar ,not acetone will tell you the powder is going bad .Arnie

[swheeler]

Are you sure its not the metal can thats rusting and causing the red dust ? I have just opened the last of about 10 cans of imr 4350 .Some dated back to the late 40's and had rust dust in them but the powder worked fine . The smell of vinegar ,not acetone will tell you the powder is going bad .Arnie

I think the smell you refer to in that IMR powder is ether. Acetone is used as solvent in the double base powders and ether and acetone have very different smells.

[Rocky Raab]

Red dust in powder is almost certainly degraded powder and not rust from the can. If it IS can rust, the powder has been wet and is also probably bad. So in either case, the powder should be discarded.

BTW, the deterioration of powder accelerates rapidly when the can is opened. In some instances, it has gotten hot enough to self-ignite. If you put that can back in your powder locker...

I think it was John Wooters who wrote about having such a can of "dusty" powder. He put it back in his cabinet, and a few days later that can was hot to the touch. He RAN outside with it, as you can well imagine.

[Shiloh]

Are you sure its not the metal can thats rusting and causing the red dust ? I have just opened the last of about 10 cans of imr 4350 .Some dated back to the late 40's and had rust dust in them but the powder worked fine . The smell of vinegar ,not acetone will tell you the powder is going bad .Arnie

It is a combination of both.

There was old metal cans of IMR powder in my father in law's basement. Some of the red powder was from cans that had rusted through.

I had heard that French powder made during early WW I, was not rinsed properly due to the pressing need to get it into cartridges. After just a few years, cases of ammo were spontaneously combusting to to the rapid deterioration. Millions of rounds of this stuff were dumped in the Atlantic ocean after the war in deep water disposal.

Shiloh

[Good Cheer]

Fired three cartridges that had been loaded with it. They worked OK. But after seeing the red dust I treated the barrel with decontamination in case nitric acid residue remained.

[zomby woof]

I purchased several pounds of powder from a friend. It was a mix of IMR Allient and other powders. I'm guessing it had been stored in a garage for some time. I've also got other powders from old timers getting rid of there old components. Only the IMR powder showed the red dust. It was not from rust. I've shot this powder with no problems. I've also had success seperating the dust from the powder.

I won't be using anymore old powder. I'm only buying new.

[762 shooter]

A while back I opened some IMR 4895 I had that was 20 years old that had "red Dust" contamination. The powder still had that good Ether/Acetone smell.

I emailed IMR with my concerns.

They emailed me back and said that the powder was fine.

This was about one year ago so I couldn't find the email.

Ask IMR. They will know.

Anyway I used the powder to toss 762 bullets and boolits down range and no problems.

762