Buckshot has loaded some 148 wadcutters in 38 S&W, he has a wide-cavity #359063 mould IIRC. My boolit for the Colt PP is the Lyman 150 grain SWC (#358477), which works because the little Colt has tighter throats and grooves that accomodate the castings' dimensions. These I run to 725 FPS atop 3.3 grains of Herco or 3.0 grains of Unique. The loads shoot right to the sights at 25 and 50 yards.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Yes, my Colts have always been dimensioned smaller than the Smiths, and bulky SWC shoulders that the Smiths gobble cannot be chambered in the Colt. It does fine with long ogive bullets, such as the .35-200 rifle bullet. I "smush" them in a blind die I bought from Buckshot, and the resulting flat nose gives quite a respectable meplat. Lighter bullets such as a Lee 140g WC and 148g WC also function fine in the Colt, although I can't necessarily seat them as long as I might in an S&W.
Gunfan, which guns do you have an eye on? FWIW, I'm also a fan of reblueing, as I like guns to look nice & shoot straight--I'm a shooter/enthusiast/dabbler, not really a collector.
There is an S&W with a 2" barrel misposted and put into the .32 revolver column.
Sadly, I have spent all of my available money on 1 revolver in .32 Magnum, and 2 in .32 Long (I also picked up a dandy little FIE Titan in .32 ACP for $274.32 OTD). I can't afford to bid $200.00 + dollars on the piece.
The .38 S&W nice little S&W "Terrier", it has a 2" barrel with a beautifully new re-blue job and "faux" pearl grips. (I'm not much for "faux" pearl grips, but the revolver is in nice condition).
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=286501334
You have about 7 hours to bid on it.
Scott
Nice eye! Unfortunately, after getting those 2 Rugers and now a supply of CIS Mk 2Z ammo for them, I'm tapped for a while, too.
Somebody is going to get a really nice revolver... and they'll get it cheaply too!Originally Posted by LouisianaMan
Nice eye! Unfortunately, after getting those 2 Rugers and now a supply of CIS Mk 2Z ammo for them, I'm tapped for a while, too.
Someone is going to be very angry when they discover that they haven't bought a .32 S&W revolver!
Scott
I hope not, Gunfan. Most of the folks interested in these gems know right well that with the small-frame S&Ws that 5 shots = 38 caliber (of some kind) while 6 shots = 32 or 22. Also, Models 30 and 31 = 32 S&W Long, while Models 32 and 33 = 38 S&W.
If that critter had a 4" barrel, I'd chase it down in a hurry.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
You can chase a 4" barrel for it down from a parts house, if you're so inclined.
Scott
Not being familiar with the model listed on the auction can I ask what is the attraction of it? Old time quality or perhaps it is an I frame which I have never seen. Just trying to see it from another's perspective and broaden my understanding.
The grips are sort of an eyesore.
When you say "old time quality" the .38 S&W and .38 S&W Special revolvers until we were given the "Hillary Hole". The .38 S&W, when loaded to it's proper potential doesn't fall too short of the .38 S&W Special cartridge, and it eclipses the .380 ACP.
These "pocketable" little revolvers carry a potency rivaling the current modern loadings of .380 and it also exceeds the most potent .32 Auto (7.65 x 17SR or 7.65mm Browning).
The attraction is what is was during the first part of the last century: A moderately powerful round, in a high-quality, yet concealable revolver. The grips? Those are a matter of taste. I had stated earlier in the thread that I didn't much care for them, but would like a set of originals, to restore the original look of the revolver.
These revolvers were discontinued in 1974. The sample we had mentioned was either of late 1950's to early 1960's production. When it comes to the world of handguns, it really isn't that old.
Scott
Last edited by gunfan; 05-21-2012 at 10:48 AM.
I think I had it as early 1950s. What I do not understand about the pistol is that if it is a J Frame and not an I frame why would one not just go with a 38 Special Model 36 and load it down? I understand the attraction of history and from that perspective would also have liked it. If it is dimensionally the same as a 36 the 36 seems to be a better option offering a wider array of ballistics.
It isn't because the "I" frame was inadequate, because it was. The frame was just too short to safely accommodate a 6 round cylinder! It is lighter in weight, and in the day, made it more amenable to concealed carry.
If you want a .38 Special, fine. The "I" frame is smaller, and can hide more easily. Besides, if you perform some research, the .38 S&W (again) isn't that far behind the .38 Special. (Speer Reloading Manual #10, 1978). The bullets are different .360"-.361" as opposed to .357"-.358" and are usually made of nearly 100% lead. (Casting makes the revolver even more attractive).
I repeat, conduct some research, (on line, or on paper) and borrow someone's .38 S&W solid-frame revolver. If you obtain a Model 32 or 33 (either a"Terrier" or Regulation Police) and shoot it, perhaps you may understand.
Scott
Last edited by gunfan; 05-21-2012 at 11:46 AM.
I might add that if you "load down" the .38 Special too far, you can cause pressures to "spike" and exceed the pressures of the cartridge. The smaller case of the .38 S&W compensates for this. You could shorten a .38 Special case, but the .38 S&W already exists.
Scott
From Wikepedia:
The .38 S&W is a revolver cartridge developed by Smith & Wesson in 1877. Though similar in name, it is not interchangeable with the later .38 Smith and Wesson Special due to a different case shape and slightly larger bullet diameter.
The British military adopted a loading of this cartridge as the Cartridge, S.A., Revolver Ball, 380 in, MkI .38-200, with the "200" referring to the weight of the bullet in grains. In 1937, this cartridge was replaced in British Service by the Cartridge, S.A., Revolver Ball, 380 in, MkII. The main difference between it and the previous round was that that it had a 178 gn. FMJ bullet.
[edit]U.S. Variants
The .38 Colt New Police was Colt's Manufacturing Company's proprietary name for what was essentially the .38 S&W with a flat-nosed bullet.
The U.S. .38 S&W Super Police cartridge was nearly identical to the British .38/200 Mk I, using a 200 grain (13 g) lead alloy bullet with a muzzle velocity of 630 ft/s (189 m/s) and a muzzle energy of 176 ft·lbf (239 J), and was supplied by several U.S. manufacturers to the British government as equivalent to the Mk I loading.
The .38 S&W is also called the .380 Rim and .38 S&W Corto.
I have a 1930s 38-200 Commercial Webley; however hesitant to shoot it as it is virtually new. Most likely I'll eventually secure another 38-200 Webley or Enfield in and play with it. I do not question the 38 S&W is interesting or with a soft lead heavy bullet formidable. Just wonder why one wants a 38 S&W in a J Frame?
In an I frame I understand the attraction. Thinking the auction was for an I frame I was the second highest bidder. The materials (except dies) to reload for the 38 S&W are on my shelf. In a J frame 38 S&W is a curiosity that eats into a budget I have already gone through this month.
Got it. I believe that the .38 S&W "J" frame was continued for the "senior" or "female" agents/detectives. this would permit them to shoot a reasonably potent round while not shooting a .32 caliber cartridge. (They had few holster options at the time, so they had to remain within frame guidelines). Small departments didn't load their own ammunition, and the "J" frame in .38 S&W "filled the bill". If a policewoman of the day dumped five rounds of .38 S&W into a subject/miscreant, it was believed that she had a reason to do so; few, outside of the shooting review board, questioned it.
Scott
Gunfan,
This is the one that I am trying to figure out. Any help is gratefully received.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=154446
PB
Sorry, kid. That's far outside my pay grade. If it was shipped around the world and converted that long ago, I couldn't begin to tell you the story. Obviously the barrel has been changed and the breech face and hammer nose altered to accommodate the rimfire cartridge.
Returning it to it's original configuration would be costly, but only you can decide whether, or not, it is worth the time an money to do so. If it is an "I" frame, it may be an interesting project and a fun shooter. It will, however, not be inexpensive when it comes to time, materials and labor.
Scott
Last edited by gunfan; 05-21-2012 at 02:48 PM.
I am going to keep it as is. The oddness of what it currently is and the likelihood that it has been all over the world is why I acquired it. Will take it out and shoot it soon as I get time. Someone who was a target shooter worked this one into what it is now and determining what he produced is part of its attraction. The quality of the workmanship is excellent. Odd to think it was converted to a rimfire prior to being sent out of England, but hard to figue how it got back to England and then became a rimfire.
Getting to the USA is also interesting.
Hope it shoots accurately. It's oddness appeals to me.
All the best.
PB
Only other thing I can figure out is that the Brits converted it into a training pistol and it made it to Europe as a training pistol for the local police. Later it found its way here.
Cuts out one unlikely leg of its journey.
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote