Titan ReloadingRotoMetals2Inline FabricationWideners
Lee PrecisionRepackboxADvertise here

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 61

Thread: Paper patching, what works for me.

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    The Abyss
    Posts
    580
    Gear, you advocate the use of ball powders; is there something inherently wrong with IMR/stick powders? Varget works extremely well in my 30-30 and IMR 4320 likewise in my '06 with J-words. Are stick powders incompatible with PPCB?
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

    unknown

  2. #22
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    1,018
    One quick question. In the past, I used onionskin paper with rag content, but I can't seem to find it anymore. Where are you finding the geeen barred computer paper, as long as we're on the subject?

    thanks!
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,703
    I found 15# green bar paper on Ebay. $25 for a huge case of it with free shipping. It's pretty hard to find locally, Office Max can order it but it's about $85 for a box.

    -Nobade

  4. #24
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    1,018
    Thanks!
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
    Dryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    427
    When making loads for hunting, do you patch above the crimp groove or just over the lip (at the bottom of the groove) so you don't cut the patch?
    Domari Nolo

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,703
    Quote Originally Posted by Dryball View Post
    When making loads for hunting, do you patch above the crimp groove or just over the lip (at the bottom of the groove) so you don't cut the patch?
    It really depends on the boolit design and shape of the rifle's chamber and throat. I never crimp any PP ammo, that cuts the patch in half.

    Two examples - my Marlin 45-70 has a SAAMI chamber with no throat. Patch barely sticks out the case when loaded or it won't chamber. The other is my 416 Taylor. It has about a half inch of freebore, so the boolit not only sticks way out but the patch does as well so most of it is outside the case. Both of these are loaded with compressed charges of powder so the boolits can't telescope back into the case on recoil, and no crimp.

    -Nobade

  7. #27
    I keep hearing about this "green bar printer paper." What is it that makes it so good for paper patching? Is it the thinness or thickness relative to bore and bullet diameter, or is it the cotton content? I'm playing around with plain printing paper and 100% cotton rag vellum paper. The vellum paper is a little bit thinner than the plain printing paper, so I'm beginning to appreciate playing around with paper thickness for varying the bullet diameter. The other paper I hear a lot about is any variety of tracing paper with high cotton fibre content.

    I get the impression that the theory behind paper patched cast bullets is to find a cast bullet of the largest diameter possible while still allowing for two full wraps of paper to match the bore diameter.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,703
    Quote Originally Posted by TomBulls View Post
    I keep hearing about this "green bar printer paper." What is it that makes it so good for paper patching? Is it the thinness or thickness relative to bore and bullet diameter, or is it the cotton content? I'm playing around with plain printing paper and 100% cotton rag vellum paper. The vellum paper is a little bit thinner than the plain printing paper, so I'm beginning to appreciate playing around with paper thickness for varying the bullet diameter. The other paper I hear a lot about is any variety of tracing paper with high cotton fibre content.

    I get the impression that the theory behind paper patched cast bullets is to find a cast bullet of the largest diameter possible while still allowing for two full wraps of paper to match the bore diameter.
    Be careful not to get smokeless and black powder patching techniques confused. Other than paper wrapped around lead, almost everything about it is different. Small bullets patched up to bore diameter and barely inserted in the case is for black powder. Bullets just barely over bore diameter and patched to fit the fired case and the rifle's throat is for smokeless powder. You can use bullets patched to groove in black powder rifles if they have a modern type chamber, but bullets patched to bore aren't going to work at all with smokeless.

    Nothing magical about the 15# green bar paper. The main thing is it is almost the perfect thickness to fit many smokeless powder rifles, it's easy to wrap, and it's cheap. The most commonly available papers any more are 20# and 25# printer paper, and they are way too thick for most applications. Notebook paper is 15# but it's too fragile to wrap with when it's wet. So the green bar paper gets the nod, especially when you can buy a case of it for less than $30 - that's several lifetimes supply.

    I use 8# and 9# onionskin paper for most of my black powder PP ammo, but that stuff is hard to find and expensive. The green bar works and is what I'll use for the majority of my playing around with smokeless. BTW, it adds .011" with two wraps and sizes down nicely. The 8# onionskin adds .006" and shouldn't be sized afterward since it's not fluffy and has nowhere to compress. Laser printer paper adds about .016".

    -Nobade

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    8,275
    Notebook paper is 15# but it's too fragile to wrap with when it's wet. So the green bar paper gets the nod,
    Aah! I had guessed it was a stronger paper but not that it was about the wet strength. The great thing about notepad paper is it comes in a range of thickness but it is weak when wet which is not a problem for tail-less patching. It might not be tough enough to survive the bore at higher pressures and velocities though.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    90 miles North of Texarkana 9 miles from OK in the green hell
    Posts
    4,452
    My .02 about getting to the rifling with the patch. This is from a new unfired at least 30 maybe more yo 264 WM on an FN action and it is 1 of the most aggrevating bugs that seems to never be mentioned. I have a case with a boolit perched, wrapped and seated to max coal ,half the bore ride wrapped and the generally excepted to/just over the ogive wrapped the brass is brand new 7mm Rem Mag "chamber sized" (in other words I took it out of the box and closed the bolt and then deburred and dummies) it makes very clear that stuff doesn't always fit according to plan. I've lost a similar picture of 3 06' dummies that show the same thing except that 1 is at max coal and 1 is barely out of the case. Those being a high milage Savage, a 760 and the stubby 1 being a 03A3. Anyway a picture of the most frustrating part.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20150213_093637.jpg 
Views:	211 
Size:	47.6 KB 
ID:	130662
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wild Western Australia
    Posts
    45
    Hi All and happy new year... I've read a gazillion pages in here, but nobody has mentioned using an expander die when seating PP boolits in bottleneck cases?

    best to all
    bosco

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,703
    Quote Originally Posted by bosco555 View Post
    Hi All and happy new year... I've read a gazillion pages in here, but nobody has mentioned using an expander die when seating PP boolits in bottleneck cases?

    best to all
    bosco
    Ideally, you won't have to resize the cases at all. The next patched bullet will be a nice slip fit in the fired case's neck. But if the chamber dimensions are large enough so that a bullet that fits the throat is sloppy loose in the case, you'll have to resize it. Then your expander die comes into play, and you'll want to make one the right size to allow the bullet to fit with thumb pressure. You don't want to go too tight or the case will resize the bullet when it's seated. When using straight cases (or slightly tapered) like 45-70 or 38-55, you can back off your sizer die to produce only slight sizing and not have to expand the case afterward.

    -Nobade

  13. #33
    Banned


    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    29˚6827N, 99˚1207W
    Posts
    14,667
    The less you crush the patch with the case neck the better. I use neck bushing dies or Lee Collet neck dies to give just barely enough neck tension to hold the bullet, which means most of the time I can put a penny on the bullet nose and seat it with firm thumb pressure. Steer clear of normal full-length resizing dies. Sometimes it's handy to use a neck expanding die just for the sloped part that puts a hint of bell on the mouth to assist starting the bullet without tearing the patch. A VLD inside chamfer helps as well.

    Gear

  14. #34
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Western North Dakota
    Posts
    3,102
    In my patching, the case must support the bullet and the loaded round must be reasonably durable. Therefore, I use an "M" type die, either full length or only neck size depending upon the rifle and use a durable tracing paper. The rifles involved are 95 Manlicher 8 x 57, 95 Winchester .30-40 and 336 Marlins in .30-30. System works well for all three platforms.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sweet Home Oregon
    Posts
    4,185
    Gear ... I also have the same question ... Why BALL powder?
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,703
    It shoots better than sticks. Usually the balls are more progressive burning, so at the moment of the shot they seem to act like inert filler and protect the bullet in its trip through the throat and into the rifling before the fire gets to the bullet's base. At least that's my theory, and the targets seem to support it. Not to say sticks can't work, but on average the balls are better.

    -Nobade

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sweet Home Oregon
    Posts
    4,185
    Thanks. Will have to shop for ball powdr n give it a try.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  18. #38
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,703
    Look for the Winchester ones. Not all ball powder is created equal, and depending on what you're shooting WW748, 760, and 780 have worked very well for me over time. Had terrible luck with some of the Accurate numbers.

    -Nobade

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sweet Home Oregon
    Posts
    4,185
    thanks Nobade. will get a pound of each and see if my luck improves ... i have only used stick powders and black powders [as we all know that is a different cat altogether with blackpowder ... i know cause i tryed the same thing with smokeless and nope ... didnt make bag at all].
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  20. #40
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    17,682
    Is there a list of paper thickness? Anyone spent the time to mic some of them?
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check