32 reloads

[Molly]

I've recenty been on a thread discussing the .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper. As part of the discussion, I worked up a very nice load in the 32 long that geatured a hard LSW over 8.0g H110 powder. It had considerably more snap than factory rounds, but didn't flatten primers or stick cases: They would often fall out when I raised the muzzle. Then I discovered that the crane on my little M30 32 Long was bent to the point that the gun didn't want to close.

I put it away until I could look it over closely and see what was binding. Fortunately, the crane was easily bent back into alignment, but I decided that the aforementined loads woud be reserved for more heavily constructed revolvers.
Having several boxes of 32 Long loaded with 8.0g H110 and a hefty swc, I undertook to recover the cases by firing them in my Ruger 32 Mag. This worked very well, and the cases droped out with no primer flattening of bulged cases. Thus emboldened, I tried them in my 32 long H&R revolver. I got the same results, and there was every evidence of moderate loads, and none of seriously excessive pressures.

This load seems quite moderate in the .32 Mag and the H&R 32 Long, but seems to be far too hot for the S&W. What could be causing pressures in the M30 to be so high that they bent the crane? What am I doing wrong?

[Pepe Ray]

The only thing you are doing wrong is expecting too much from the S&W.
Pepe Ray

[GabbyM]

It’s not pressure it's thrust that’s bending your frame. Pressure would blow up the cylinder.
IMO

[GabbyM]

32 S&W has plenty of power for a man stopper anyway. Simply focus your eyes on the nose bridge then pull off three shots. One is all you need. Other two are just fo-shoo.
What you lack with a light gun is barrier penetration. Naked humans are very fragile targets. Then if you can get them to sit still so you can make your perfect shot.

Truth is the winner in a close quarters gun fight wil e the one who is willing to take a round right through the heart and not allow that to throw off his aim. That is the man who will make the shot. If his opponent makes that heart shot he will indeed fall dead. However he will also make the shot that kills his adversary. Focus on your mission and don’t let a little tidbit like your heart leaving your chest shake your aim. Life is short anyways so don’t screw up the last half second of it.

Co-worker of mine whom is long since deceased from alcohol abuse once related a story.

He was pulling drag on a mine sweeping op on a stretch of dirt road in Nam that he and his unit walked every morning. He heard a leaf crunch. When in a state of high alert and total terror ones response is to turn towards the sound very fast. Coming at him was his NVA adversary. Machete drawn back in preparation for a silent beheading then escape back into the tree line. My late friend pulled his trigger on the early model M16. Releasing the entire twenty rounds across the attackers mid section. Hapless Gook hit the road which was heavily rutted dried mud. His *** and legs rolled into a rut to one side while his upper half rolled to the opposite direction. My friend stood there with an empty rifle while the Gook attempted to throw his machete into him. The little sloop just didn’t have enough body left to get anything behind his throw. All I know is It’s lucky for my old coworker Gooney-Bird that little gook **** head didn’t have a 32 pistol as he’d of took aim and shot him dead.

Make of that what you want. What it comes down to is the final solution. Big magnum revolver or eighty shot pistol makes nada. It’s only the kill shot that counts.

Thus trying t pump up a 32 S&W is folley IMHO.

[Bret4207]

It doesn't male sense to me that the crane would bend from the load used, especially if the cases are falling out. I'd look for another possible cause.

[flounderman]

is it possible the cylinder is supposed to have a lock up at the rear and it isn't going into place like it should, or support at the front isn't tight enough. with the hammer down, does the cylinder have excessive play in any direction?

[Molly]

is it possible the cylinder is supposed to have a lock up at the rear and it isn't going into place like it should, or support at the front isn't tight enough. with the hammer down, does the cylinder have excessive play in any direction?

I bought the M30 NIB at a gun show. It's had maybe three boxes of hot loads through it. It's still as tight as when I bought it. But yes, S&W does have a small pin to 'lock up' the rear of the cylinder into position when the gun is closed.

>It doesn't male sense to me that the crane would bend from the load used, especially if the cases are falling out. I'd look for another possible cause.

Ahhh, that's what I'm trying to do right now, hoping someone else might have come across something like this. I was a gunsmith for quite a few years, and still do my own. This is the first time I've encountered anything like this.

>It’s not pressure it's thrust that’s bending your frame. Pressure would blow up the cylinder. IMO

OK, tell me how that works. I have, in my callow youth, put some ungodly overloads through a S&W revolver - and not just a few shots either - with nary a bobble. In fact, I was shooting that very pistol a couple of days ago, and it's still as accurate and trouble-free as it ever was. It will still keep its shots touching at 25 yards if I do my share. What's the difference besides the size of the revolver?

[Blackwater]

I think it's well to remember that primers don't indicate "excessive pressure" until they hit 40,000 psi or more. Thus, for a mild round like the lovable little .32's, one can exceed the design pressure of the GUN long before the primer shows any stress. Most of the small frame .32 S&W's probably won't take 30,000 psi loads for very long before stretching something. Thus, one shouldn't expect to see pressure signs in a primer, even though one has exceeded the pressure limits of that particular revolver.

[Molly]

I think it's well to remember that primers don't indicate "excessive pressure" until they hit 40,000 psi or more. Thus, for a mild round like the lovable little .32's, one can exceed the design pressure of the GUN long before the primer shows any stress. Most of the small frame .32 S&W's probably won't take 30,000 psi loads for very long before stretching something. Thus, one shouldn't expect to see pressure signs in a primer, even though one has exceeded the pressure limits of that particular revolver.

That would make sense if it weren't for the fired cases falling out. Primers are no better than a very rough guide, and as you say, you have to be pretty hot before they start showing serious flattening. But primers have to be 'read' in the context of other pressure indicators and case expansion is another story. Brass doesn't have the strength of tempered steel. It begins to bulge with very little pressure. These cases just barely show the first traces of expansion, which is why I am mystified at the M30's inability to handle them. I'm even more confused by the ease that other 32 calibers handle these exact same loads. The Ruger .32 Mag shouldn't have a problem, and doesn't. But the 32 Long H&R has no more trouble digesting them than the 32 mag.

Any given load isn't going to change pressures drastically going from one 32 Long chamber to another. There might be some slight pressure changes due to different throat diameters, etc, but nothing approaching the magnitude I'm seeing here.

[Piedmont]

Molly, Does the hole where that stud off the rear of the ejector rod fits still look round? I have seen picture of these ovaling and that is one of the signs of frame stretching.

[Molly]

Molly, Does the hole where that stud off the rear of the ejector rod fits still look round? I have seen picture of these ovaling and that is one of the signs of frame stretching.

Sorry to be kinda slow responding, but I've been dealing with some acute issues, and still have some in progress but I can take a few minutes to thank you for the suggestion. I saw no evidence of it while I was straightening the crane, but then again, I wasn't looking for it. When I get some time, I'll pull it down again and get back to you. I'd be surprised if that's the problem. But I've been surprised before! (BG)

[leadman]

Many of the old 32s were made from soft steel and would not take much pressure. My H&R 32 short does not even seal the cases very well.
The highest pressure load on Hodgdon website is 12,000 cup with 3 grs of Universal and 85gr bullet.

I have seen loads like yours for the 32 Long but these were for Contender barrels, not revolvers.

If you PM me the serial number of the S&W I can find when it was made.

[Molly]

Molly, Does the hole where that stud off the rear of the ejector rod fits still look round? I have seen picture of these ovaling and that is one of the signs of frame stretching.

OK Piedmont, I finally got the chance to dig it out of the safe and look it over again. I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but FWIW, I looked it over pretty closely. Here's what I found:

1. The hole in the frame where the spring loaded pin out of the rear of the cylinder goes into battery appears perfectly round.

2. The hole in the yoke that the ejection rod goes through into the front of the cylinder also appears perfectly round.

3. After I straightened the yoke, the cylinder goes into battery in a perfectly normal manner, locking up solidly at both front and rear of the cylinder.

4. After I straightened the yoke, the cylinder rotates without any noticeable tight spots. Before I straightened it, the cylinder was reluctant (harder) to rotate over a couple of chambers. This was not due to a lack of lubrication.

5. The yoke appears tight to the frame cutout where it is supposed to seat, and does not visibly move at all to as much hand pressure as I could put on it.

In short, straightening the yoke slightly seems to have corrected the binding that prevented closing the cylinder. No other changes / repairs were made, and the pistol now appears to be in very nearly new condition, operating smoothly and easily.

I find this very puzzling because the S&W Hand Ejector is a very robust design. I've had excellent results with every other S&W I've ever owned. I find the inability of this M30-1 to digest loads that an H&R handles very easily to be most unexpected. If anything, I would have expected the H&R to fail first, not the Smith & Wesson.

If anyone can shed any light on this, I'd be very appreciative.

[John 242]

From what I understand, case head expansion isn't a reliable indicator of over pressure in cartridges generating that low of a pressure.
Seems I remember reading that a while back in Handloader magazine.

Point I'm getting at is that although the cases fall free and the primers look fine, the pressure may still be too high, according to what I've read. Take it or leave it, but at least it's worth considering.

[Molly]

From what I understand, case head expansion isn't a reliable indicator of over pressure in cartridges generating that low of a pressure.
Seems I remember reading that a while back in Handloader magazine.

Point I'm getting at is that although the cases fall free and the primers look fine, the pressure may still be too high, according to what I've read. Take it or leave it, but at least it's worth considering.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The information I have seems to say it was manufactured in 1968. How / Why it laid around unused until I bought it last year is a real puzzle, but I will restrict its use to light loads. I have a 32 Mag when & if I want to play with higher power loads. It will still make a wonderful woods walking gun.