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Thread: Annealing Setup?

  1. #41
    Boolit Bub
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    Neat Idea!

  2. #42
    Boolit Master

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    Ive dedicated a lymann big dipper pot (10 lb) to annealing. I have a stand made up that sits in it for a case holder. I use "glass" sand that was given to me its very fine and flows about like water. I heat the pot to 750* with a thermometer. The stand is 3 plates dia to just fit in pot. Top plate has 12 1/2" holes around it middle plate is solid and acts as a stop. Bottom plate hods everything on 1/4 x20 ready rod. I drilled clearence holes and nut on each side of plates to lock. Once top temp I insert cases around top plate and once full pull 1 and refill hole. This gives about 15-20 second "soak" time. no color change but necks also dont have near the spring back as before. Its is quick and consistent. a bigger pot might be better as more sand would hold temp more consistently.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master duckey's Avatar
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    I brain hurts from reading about annealing! It seems so simple with a handful of basics to understand and with repurposed tools. Some say way h color of brass as you heat it, some say no that's not accurate, some day the tipping over water method works some sat its not.

    I have switched gears from reloading handgun round to rifle (never annealed handgun cases). I understand the purpose and agree with the why, it's the process/method. I need to decide which one. I reload once fired 30-06, 30-30, and 375 H&H magnum. I don't need to anneal a volume of brass so the fancy dancy machines are not needed.

    It seems this process can be very simple and inexpensive to over technical and expensive. I am only looking at making my brass last a long as possible especially the 375 H&H.

    Food for thought welcome.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master duckey's Avatar
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    Please excuse the auto correct errors.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master

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    The trick is a consistent temp for a consistent time to due whats needed to change the structure of the brass back. The trick watching color change is what is "red" dull red, dark red, dark oarnge, bright red or all the other shades same with blies and greys. Then there is the issue that even in a dark room the eyes see things diffrent over time and wiht fatiuge. Templaq helps with this. Another is the tourch and the impurites introduced from the flame and enviroment. Propane, Map gas, natural gas. which burner style. They used to make an attachment for a propane /mapp gas tourch thet acted like a small oven rolling flame around round objects to allow easier soldering. I always thought this would be a benifit. Another might be a copper tee and reducer to hold to tourch . It comes down to consistency and following the same procedure the same way everytime.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master


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    I was amazed at the difference in brass hardness (or lack thereof) after using mine. I use it after 3-4 reloadings + I enjoy watching it work (I have no life)
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  7. #47
    Boolit Bub

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    Hey Ed in Texas
    I resemble that remark, I live in Rio Linda CA and I know what sodium chloride is.
    I would like to know more about this salt method. All in fun. I was thinking of putting fine sand
    in a lead pot and bring it to temperature, say 700 degrees and stick the brass in that for a time.
    I am in the process of forming brass from 30-06 military, so annealing is becoming an interest.

  8. #48
    Boolit Bub

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    BattleRife
    Does the salt actually melt into a liquid form? I am very interested in this method because it seems to be a more
    consistent way to anneal brass vs. a propane torch.
    I just re-read your process (quite a few times) and find that the salts are melted since you mention the melting temp.
    I should read better.
    Last edited by Savage99; 02-06-2015 at 01:27 AM.

  9. #49
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    Ed in North Texas's Avatar
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    Savage 99:

    I had to go back a ways to find where I used Limbaugh's almost favorite saying (@ 69 I have trouble remembering what I wrote the day before yesterday).

    I think your idea of using sand would work, though I suspect the time to get the sand to temperature would be longer* and the "soak" time would also be longer than the couple of seconds a liquid provides. OTOH, you could find your material at the closest hardware/lumber store, and you wouldn't have any issues with making sure your medium is off the brass.

    * The salts turn to liquid, helping to turn more of the salts to liquid and liquids transfer heat more rapidly than grains of a solid.
    Ed

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  10. #50
    Boolit Master Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
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    Using sand is an area where you have to be careful. Using sand in a sand blaster breaks it down into some nasty carcinogenic stuff I believe. Does heat do the same? It woukd be neat though, work out the time, push them into the sand until the time is up and start pulling them out.
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  11. #51
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    I tried the salt bath method and I have two words, never again. It makes a mess and playing w/ 1000 degree liquid potassium nitrate is not fun. That's how hot I had to get it so very little stuck to the case. And if you think the tinsel fairy is bad. You don't want to meet the salt fairy. It was a somewhat cool day and condensation formed on the inside of the cases when annealing them. The salt really really hurts when it hits you.

    I thought it was a pretty slick idea so I tried it out. It may be slower but a socket and torch doesn't make a mess and is easy to control.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master

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    The sand Im using now is some a friend got me from Libbey owens ( glass makers) It is super fine has a very high melt point and has been working for me so far. Yes I give the pot a couple hours to pre heat the sand so the whole pot is to temp. My fixture is round and has 12 - 1/2" holes around the edge. Once hot and to temp I strat filling holes slowly at 12o and ork around till one hole is empty I then remove case and quench and add case working in this manner until batch is done. I check temps with my lead thermometer so I know Im where I want to be. If using play sand I would fire it the first couple times out doors and burn off impurities. One advantage to the glass makers sand is it is fairly pure. It is also very fine and flows well

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
    Ed in North Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post
    I tried the salt bath method and I have two words, never again. It makes a mess and playing w/ 1000 degree liquid potassium nitrate is not fun. That's how hot I had to get it so very little stuck to the case. And if you think the tinsel fairy is bad. You don't want to meet the salt fairy. It was a somewhat cool day and condensation formed on the inside of the cases when annealing them. The salt really really hurts when it hits you.

    I thought it was a pretty slick idea so I tried it out. It may be slower but a socket and torch doesn't make a mess and is easy to control.
    I take it you missed Battlerife's statement about dropping the cases in a bucket of water which washed off the salt residue, stopped any migration of heat in the case and would eliminate your condensation issue. Did you get hit with liquid salt when removing the cases from the salt bath (I guess you did make a shield as Battlerife did)? Could that have been caused by getting the salt so hot in trying to keep salt from sticking to the case?

    Your experience is certainly a caution to folks trying this.
    Ed

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  14. #54
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Four Fingers of Death View Post
    Using sand is an area where you have to be careful. Using sand in a sand blaster breaks it down into some nasty carcinogenic stuff I believe. Does heat do the same? It woukd be neat though, work out the time, push them into the sand until the time is up and start pulling them out.
    Mick,

    You are probably thinking of the problem of silicosis (pneumoconeosis), breathing the fine silica particles which result from the breakdown of the sand. In coal mining pneumoconeosis is known as Black Lung Disease and there are several different names, depending on the industry/material inhaled.
    Ed

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  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed in North Texas View Post
    I take it you missed Battlerife's statement about dropping the cases in a bucket of water which washed off the salt residue, stopped any migration of heat in the case and would eliminate your condensation issue. Did you get hit with liquid salt when removing the cases from the salt bath (I guess you did make a shield as Battlerife did)? Could that have been caused by getting the salt so hot in trying to keep salt from sticking to the case?

    Your experience is certainly a caution to folks trying this.
    No, I didn't miss that part. The water did not remove all the salt residue. The condensation formed nn the inside of the case while they were in the salt. The shield didn't matter because it went everywhere. That's right, little balls of 1000 degree liquid salt flying everywhere. The annealing results weren't that great. Risk versus reward is firmly in the to much risk area. You will also end up salt drips all over the place. It dries like concrete and is a pain to remove.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    Dragon,

    Thanks for the input, always good to have another person's experience which differs.
    Ed

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  17. #57
    Boolit Man
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    Years ago I decided there were rules, I decided there were a few rules that governed annealing. After that I started annealing cases by following a few basic rules. Nothing I have seen and or read changes the basic rules of annealing.

    F. Guffey

  18. #58
    Boolit Mold Buckeye Marksman's Avatar
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    Here are some recipes for eutectic salt mixtures:

    60% NaNO3 (Sodium Nitrate)
    40% KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate)

    53% KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate)
    40% NaNO2 (Sodium Nitrite)
    7% NaNO3 (Sodium Nitrate)

    45% KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate)
    45% NaNO2 (Sodium Nitrite)
    10% NaNO3 (Sodium Nitrate)

    Found out that Spectracide stump remover is a good source for KNO3, I've also stumbled across a mail order bio-diesel supply house that stocks all three chemicals.

    Potasium Nitrate
    Sodium Nitrate
    Sodium Nitrite

    Is it a good idea to de-prime the cases before annealing so any trapped steam can vent?
    Last edited by Buckeye Marksman; 04-11-2017 at 04:30 PM.

  19. #59
    What Buckeye Marksman said... and you can also find a premixed eutectic salt mixture at http://www.hightemptools.com/Salts.html at $4/lb. The shipping is a bunch more, however. If you want to create your own mix using off-the-shelf items, you can use Spectracide Stump Remover which is pure Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) and Hi-Yield Nitrate of Soda which is pure Sodium Nitrate (NaNO3). It should be mixed at a rate of 40% by weight of Spectracide Stump Remover to 60% by weight of Hi-Yield Nitrate of Soda. The mixtures which include Sodium Nitrite (NaNO2) that Buckeye Marksman listed above will actually melt at lower temperatures, but you will be annealing at about 500 C (932 F). The 40/60 mixture of KNO3 and NaNO3 will melt at 260 C (500 F) so using one of the KNO3/NaNO3/NaNO2 mixtures is not really necessary.
    Last edited by Scryptic7; 06-21-2017 at 08:29 AM.

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