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Thread: Air Assisted Master Caster

  1. #21

    Thumbs up Air Assisted Master Caster

    Thank you for the post and all the directions on making the air assisted Master Caster. Completed mine and have now cast over 1,000 45's.
    Will have to make the drip shields. Leaded up the springs and the plunger while fighting a drip. I did have to use 2 of the springs to get a good return.
    Also made the air assisted lubrisizer, works great, Thanks again.
    You caused me to get a xy table for my drill press to do some milling
    This is a great site.

  2. #22
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    1 9664K19, cut to length extension spring, .375 OD x .035 wire, $3.56 (cut to 4 for mold return spring)

    wasn't strong enough for my machine.
    my machine is brand new and must not be as loose as your broke in machine.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy melter68's Avatar
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    Cool machine, a job well done and thanks for sharing

  4. #24
    Boolit Man
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    Bringing this back up for a bit.

    Love the simplicity.

    Any updates to the project or additional things learned after using it for a while?

  5. #25
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    We automated it.
    Look for a thread done by me.
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
    The rules are simple to follow.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master



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    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  7. #27
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    Look at the last post in that thread for link to the automation post.
    That was the design post.
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
    The rules are simple to follow.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy

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    Wyman,

    Thank you very much for all of the work you have done educating us on how to air control a master caster.

    I just purchased a master caster and am looking to set it up for air control controlled by an Arduino ( http://www.atmel.com/devices/ATMEGA16U2.aspx )

    I was wondering your thoughts on using this air cylinder instead Its a switch ready double acting model McMaster part number 4952K217. It looks like it should be able to nose mount. Are there any reason to use the spring return, I have only used double acting air cylinders in the past.

    I am thinking about it as I would be able to sense if the air cylinder was bound up not moving then then off.

    I also have a few http://www.wicvalve.com/1-4-4-Way-Pn...V210-1-4-D.htm valves kicking around that I can control with a hexfet and the Arduino.

  9. #29
    Automated Master Caster

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    really could not say....i would consult with Hatch...he IS the control guru.....i am just a putz that is lazy and didn't want to pull the handle 1500 times a week......

    wyman

    Quote Originally Posted by kayak1 View Post
    Wyman,

    Thank you very much for all of the work you have done educating us on how to air control a master caster.

    I just purchased a master caster and am looking to set it up for air control controlled by an Arduino ( http://www.atmel.com/devices/ATMEGA16U2.aspx )

    I was wondering your thoughts on using this air cylinder instead Its a switch ready double acting model McMaster part number 4952K217. It looks like it should be able to nose mount. Are there any reason to use the spring return, I have only used double acting air cylinders in the past.

    I am thinking about it as I would be able to sense if the air cylinder was bound up not moving then then off.

    I also have a few http://www.wicvalve.com/1-4-4-Way-Pn...V210-1-4-D.htm valves kicking around that I can control with a hexfet and the Arduino.
    Solvang Shootist
    SASS 60905-Life
    Frontier Cartridge Black Powder Shooter

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    Wymann,neither you or hatch are a putz. I now have the second master caster inthe garage and could kickmyself for ever selling the first one. I have it pneumatic now, Injave to figure out how to automate it again. Thanks to you and Hatch for all the assistance.Still woiting for the Mark X. Since October 2012!!!!!!!

    Fox

  11. #31
    Automated Master Caster

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    never said Hatch was a putz....only me.....!!!!!!

    thanks for your kind words my Friend....

    wyman
    Solvang Shootist
    SASS 60905-Life
    Frontier Cartridge Black Powder Shooter

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayak1 View Post

    I was wondering your thoughts on using this air cylinder instead Its a switch ready double acting model McMaster part number 4952K217. It looks like it should be able to nose mount. Are there any reason to use the spring return, I have only used double acting air cylinders in the past.\
    I am not gonna look up and see if the air cylinder is the correct one for this application but I will answer your question.

    Will a non-spring return (power open and power close) cylinder work. Yes it would.
    In fact it would solve a minor problem I have from time to time when the sprue doesn't close all the way and the handle doesn't hit the limit switch. I normally just put some 2 cycle oil on the sprue and close it manually. It then starts up again..

    However you have some issues with using a non-spring. Lets talk about the basic design of the Wyman/Hatch automated Master caster (yes I give Wyman credit because it is is baby that started it all)

    The machine is started by the limit switch closing.
    A timer is activated (5 seconds) and a signal is sent to the lead pour relay to pour lead.
    Note : Regardless of the size of the boolit the time will be 5 seconds before it starts to move the mold.
    So in reality smaller boolits have longer cooling time vs larger boolits. It is a flaw in the basic automation design but there isn't really a smart way to fix this without adding another relay and rewriting the program.


    After the 5 seconds has elapsed the movement air switch is activated and the mold moves to the bottom to cut the sprue and dump the boolits. This timer is 4 seconds. Now at the end of the 4 seconds the air switch is de-energized and the handle is returned to the top via spring power.

    now Lets say a boolit gets stuck 1/2 way in the mold. Because it is spring power there isn't a ton of force being used and basically the machine will just stop. If it was power close then you might be able to force the boolit back in to the mold and close the mold.


    I know the atmega would work but your on your own concerning getting that running.

    I have been tossing around the non-spring cylinder setup as I have been typing this response.
    You could use one. It would work with NO modifications to my program. It would require a different air switch, in fact the same one used on the star sizer automation would work (but 24vdc coil)
    Drawback is that in the "off" state you will be trying to go to pos 1 (top position) There would be NO manually cycling the machine to clear the mold. I guess you could put a button to manually energize the switch easy enough.

    The bottom line is the there are a couple of people that are trying to reinvent the wheel when current the wheel works just fine.

    I am not saying that the design is perfect, it can always be improved.


    Shootinfox, I guess my arm could be twisted to build you one more BASIC control panel.
    One with no PID controller. Just the basics. I already got the pretty lighted push buttons and a power supply.
    Last edited by HATCH; 11-16-2013 at 12:13 AM.

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by HATCH View Post
    I am not gonna look up and see if the air cylinder is the correct one for this application but I will answer your question.

    Will a non-spring return (power open and power close) cylinder work. Yes it would.
    In fact it would solve a minor problem I have from time to time when the sprue doesn't close all the way and the handle doesn't hit the limit switch. I normally just put some 2 cycle oil on the sprue and close it manually. It then starts up again..

    However you have some issues with using a non-spring. Lets talk about the basic design of the Wyman/Hatch automated Master caster (yes I give Wyman credit because it is is baby that started it all)

    The machine is started by the limit switch closing.
    A timer is activated (5 seconds) and a signal is sent to the lead pour relay to pour lead.
    Note : Regardless of the size of the boolit the time will be 5 seconds before it starts to move the mold.
    So in reality smaller boolits have longer cooling time vs larger boolits. It is a flaw in the basic automation design but there isn't really a smart way to fix this without adding another relay and rewriting the program.


    After the 5 seconds has elapsed the movement air switch is activated and the mold moves to the bottom to cut the sprue and dump the boolits. This timer is 4 seconds. Now at the end of the 4 seconds the air switch is de-energized and the handle is returned to the top via spring power.

    now Lets say a boolit gets stuck 1/2 way in the mold. Because it is spring power there isn't a ton of force being used and basically the machine will just stop. If it was power close then you might be able to force the boolit back in to the mold and close the mold.


    I know the atmega would work but your on your own concerning getting that running.

    I have been tossing around the non-spring cylinder setup as I have been typing this response.
    You could use one. It would work with NO modifications to my program. It would require a different air switch, in fact the same one used on the star sizer automation would work (but 24vdc coil)
    Drawback is that in the "off" state you will be trying to go to pos 1 (top position) There would be NO manually cycling the machine to clear the mold. I guess you could put a button to manually energize the switch easy enough.

    The bottom line is the there are a couple of people that are trying to reinvent the wheel when current the wheel works just fine.

    I am not saying that the design is perfect, it can always be improved.


    Shootinfox, I guess my arm could be twisted to build you one more BASIC control panel.
    One with no PID controller. Just the basics. I already got the pretty lighted push buttons and a power supply.

    Hatch,
    Thanks for the great and detailed response. About the only part of this project I feel good about is the automation of the air cylinder with the atmega.

    I now have a lot more to think about. I didn't realize that having a weaker return prevented issues (I figured it was done for a reason).

    I will have to watch the videos of how you have them sent again this weekend.

    I really appreciate the help!

    Thanks again -Kayak1

  14. #34
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    Also you would need to a flow regulator to slow the upstroke.

    I could test your theory using the air cylinder and switch I already have for the star automation. I would just install a 24 vid relay since the air switch for it is 120v

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy
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    PM sent to hatch.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master VHoward's Avatar
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    I have completed this set up on my master caster now. It is awesome except I found out my air compressor was not up to the task. It is a cheap 20 gallon compressor and only pumps up to 110psi max and only kick back on to refill the tank when it gets to 80psi. When it was pumped up to max, the cylinder to operate the lead pour worked fine. When the pressure dropped below 95psi, the lead pour would not work properly if at all.

    Today, I went to the local Cascade Farm and Outdoor store and bought a DeWalt 15 gallon compressor that pumps up to 200psi max and will maintain 5.0cfm at 90psi for a long period. So I have the pressure regulator set to 100psi on my master caster and it work flawlessly. The DeWalt is also much quieter than the other compressor. Says it is 75 decibels running according to the manual.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    Welcome to the automated MC club!

    I never knew that there were compressors that went to 200 PSI, very nice unit.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master VHoward's Avatar
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    Me either until I saw it on display.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    The automated Master Caster is great, cast thousands of bullets with mine at one casting time.

    Cast on Saturday and powder coat on Sunday.

    Size during the week after work in the evening.

    Curently have 14 molds for the machine and use all of them.

    Here in Houston a good air dryer is required, the electric valves do not like water in the air.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    14 molds in rotation, now that's impressive. I have 3 that came with the machine, i use two of them. I have since bought 3 more that i have only used one so far. I plan on using the others shortly, i have got friends harassing me for projectiles.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check