Lee Precision saves my hair!!

[Love Life]

I got up early this morning to go reload some 8mm Mauser ammo. I am very anal about my 8mm ammunition to the point of weighing cases, primers, bullets, etc. I like for me to be the limiting factor when shooting that round!!

Anywho I have always used a set of RCBS dies, and I always have issues with seating depth. It is never consistant. It will seat 2 or 3 bullets to the correct and same depth and out of nowhere Boom! It seats shorter or longer. I have lived with this for years, and I just adjust the seating stem individually for each round. A pain, but what do you do?

So I sit down to load today and immediately have the same issue. What follows for the next 10 rounds is the story of a man driven mad. Sadness overwhelms me and I must fight to carry on. I am lost, scared, and trying to figure out what to do...when a lightbulb pops overhead.

Months ago I bought a Lee 2 die set for the collet neck sizing die. The other die is a dead length bullet seater. I figure "What the hay" might as well give it a try. I grab a loaded round and use it to set the seating depth. Once done I prepare to seat my next bullet. A small prayer goes up as I pull the handle down. When I remove the now loaded round from the press I measure and...correct depth I want.

I think maybe a fluke. So I proceed to seat another. Once again correct depth. Things are looking good!! So I continue to load another 40 rounds and all the rounds come out seated to the exact same depth!!

So as you can see things proceeded along nicely. Then as I was cleaning up the bench I spilled my coffee. A mad scramble ensues to move items I don't want to get coffee on. Of course that has nothing to do with Lee precision, but just a funny side note.

I just wanted to give some praise to Lee Precision for not only making affordable and innovative products, but for making products that just plain work!! Also for helping me keep from pulling my hair out in frustration.

Have a good day everybody.

[nfg]

First...did you measure the ogives of the bullets...they can vary over a range of 0.005"...

Next...did you measure the BULLET OAL...THAT can vary over as much as 0.015".

UNLESS you measure and sort EACH bullet into the various ranges all your gyrations go for naught.

You might be seating the CARTRIDGE OAL to the same OVERALL "EXACT LENGTH" but the bullet BASE point will vary by the amount of bullet OAL or ogive variation and therefore change the NET CASE VOLUME by a very tiny amount AND the point where the bullet ogive hits the lands.

My suggestion is to measure the ogives on ALL those loaded rounds to see where that point is in relation to the lands. That should turn on a light.

For all intents and purposes, unless your 8mm has a high dollar target barrel with a SAAMI minimum spec chamber cut by some gunsmith using exacting methods, all your "exact lengths" don't mean doodly as far as hunting or target shooting goes for a standard military 8mm Mauser.

BUT...and most importantly in the scheme of things in this reloading milieu, you learned a valuable lesson. No diss or flame intended...just add the bullet sorting steps to your normal reloading procedure...I do all the things you do AND the bullet sorting for ALL my considerable number of rifles because I LIKE ACCURATE RIFLES...all the rest get traded off or turned into accurate wildcats. and doing all the sorting DOES produce much more uniform and accurate ammo.

Keep up the good work...Nice tome...keep the coffe cup away from your reloading bench AND computers...it is a distraction along with a very dangerous liquid...the same as bull****ing and watching vids when you're working.

[Love Life]

First...did you measure the ogives of the bullets...they can vary over a range of 0.005"...

Next...did you measure the BULLET OAL...THAT can vary over as much as 0.015".

UNLESS you measure and sort EACH bullet into the various ranges all your gyrations go for naught.

You might be seating the CARTRIDGE OAL to the same OVERALL "EXACT LENGTH" but the bullet BASE point will vary by the amount of bullet OAL or ogive variation and therefore change the NET CASE VOLUME by a very tiny amount AND the point where the bullet ogive hits the lands.

My suggestion is to measure the ogives on ALL those loaded rounds to see where that point is in relation to the lands. That should turn on a light.

For all intents and purposes, unless your 8mm has a high dollar target barrel with a SAAMI minimum spec chamber cut by some gunsmith using exacting methods, all your "exact lengths" don't mean doodly as far as hunting or target shooting goes for a standard military 8mm Mauser.

BUT...and most importantly in the scheme of things in this reloading milieu, you learned a valuable lesson. No diss or flame intended...just add the bullet sorting steps to your normal reloading procedure...I do all the things you do AND the bullet sorting for ALL my considerable number of rifles because I LIKE ACCURATE RIFLES...all the rest get traded off or turned into accurate wildcats. and doing all the sorting DOES produce much more uniform and accurate ammo.

Keep up the good work...Nice tome...keep the coffe cup away from your reloading bench AND computers...it is a distraction along with a very dangerous liquid...the same as bull****ing and watching vids when you're working.

Thanks for pissing in my cheerios. Now I have more things to measure and check! Seriously though thank you for the info on measuring the bullets.

[44Vaquero]

Love life, kodo's to you for giving credit where credit is do! I too have found Lee dies to perform consistently better then most other brands. When I started out reloading I used Hornady, then Lyman and finally Lee. Some of the Hornady and Lyman are still in use others have been traded away. I never purchased very many RCBS dies, having used/borrowed them from friends did not care for them.
To make a long story short it seems to me that quality control is often spotty with reguards to many manufactures dies. YMMV

[seagiant]

Hi,
I use this for OAL,but may not come in 8MM?

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pi...et-Comparators

[Love Life]

That is a neat tool. While I do not super benchrest rifles, I do like to do everything I can to make very consistant rifle ammo. NFG definately made me aware of another variable I had not even considered.

There is a marked improvement between my ammo and factory, or less prepped ammo, when fired from my rifles.

One day I would like to shoot benchrest, but I don't think it will ever happen.

[Doc Highwall]

nfg said it like it is.

I have used the Stoney Point/Hornady O.A.L. gages that attach to your calipers to measure from the base of the bullet to the ogive to seperate bullets into lots. Bullets vary the most from base to the tip/O.A.L., but are alot more consistant from base to the ogive.

Your seating die should contact the bullet farther down on the ogive where you should be measuring for the consistently you are trying to achieve.

For my 30 caliber bullets I use a .300" diameter I.D. to measure this.

[Love Life]

You learn something new everyday. I wonder though, if measuring and separating the bullets as well, will lead to more accuracy?

At this point I believe my rifles along with myself would be the limiting factor. Right now the Remington 700 shoots exceptionally well, and the old M48 Yugo shoots much better with my ammo than with the usual surplus.

Maybe it is time I get a custom rifle built for this cartridge. I'm thinking something along the lines of the M40 platform. It may not be benchrest precise, but it will stand above my others and allow me to get the most out of my reloading practices. Hmmm. The thinking cap is on.

[44Vaquero]

After reading NFG's advice I have printed it and hung it on the reloading room wall, as a reminder for the next time I am reloading rifle rounds.

[seagiant]

Hi,
In my Battle Rifles reloading 7.62X51 ammo using once-fired LC Nato Brass,I use a few techniques. I use a flash hole uniformer to take out the burr inside the case. I use a primer pocket uniformer to square and flatten the bottom of the primer pocket and of course I ream the primer pocket first to get rid of the crimp! All of these tools can be bought from Sinclair and I believe would help any military brass be turned into "match" type performance!

[Love Life]

I am excited now. Well sort of. I need to get some extra equipment, but with the advice given so far I believe I am on the way.

NFG and Doc highwall have given great advice and insight (except for the coffee part) an with it I will be making some very exceptional ammo for normal rifles.

[canyon-ghost]

When I have a seating depth issue, I squirt the die full of Rem Oil (spray) that usually comes from Walmart. Then, I just clean the inside with Q-tips. I have a small glass of Q-tips on the reloading room table for any kind of cleaning.

[geargnasher]

NFG is absolutely spot-on with his assessment. One of the reasons I like cast boolits so much is that if you get the mould blocks closed the same way each cast, and keep things at a constant temperature, the ogives of the noses are identical, ad you simply don't have the variances you do with factory j-words.

If you get a boolit comparator and start measureing ogives, and get a Redding seating die that has a punch that fits your bullets in the right spot on the ogive, your life will be slightly more complicated, but a whole lot less frustrating.

Gear

[leadman]

I have had the same issues with seating boolits or bullets with RCBS dies. I called them and they went out some seater stems of various shapes at no charge. This has eleminated the problem when the right stem is used.

[milprileb]

OF course all that is moot if the bullet maker is hap hazard in making bullets
and my B West batch of .311 ,150 gr FMJ have such a large variance of ogives ...one cannot
get consistent seating depths.

Not so much with the Big Boy brands, Berger, Hornady etc etc.

I have some lee seaters that do a great job and some that suffer erratic seating depths. Same for RCBS and Hornady. It drives me insane

[Doc Highwall]

milprileb, if you modifiy your seating die so that it contacts the bullet farther down on the ogive closer to bore diameter your seating depths will be more consistant.

Use something like JB Weld with a hole for the point of the bullet, allowing only the lower part of the ogive to contact it.

[Love Life]

All very interesting. So what is more important. Consistant OAL or amount of bullet inside the case?

[miestro_jerry]

I have used the Lee Collet dies for a while now, I bought the .223 and .308win when they first came out, they work extremely well, since then I purchased all of the rest that have been offered. I now own 4 sets of dies for calibers that I don't own...yet.

Things to shoot for in life, more rifles, more pistols, more loading gear.

Jerry

[hanover67]

The most important aspect of bullet seating is consistancy of the distance from the bullet to the lands in the barrel. If bullets are of (slightly) different lengths, then seating them with a standard seating die will push them down the same amount, but the ogive will vary in its distance from the barrel lands.

I used to shoot highpower matches and used RCBS dies to seat 168 gr Sierras in a .308 case. I never measured overall length once the die was set for the first round. The gun and ammunition were better than I could shoot most of the time, but when I switched to a Redding Competition Seater Die, my group sizes shrank by half, but that may have been to less runout than overall length. More things to measure...

[Doc Highwall]

Love Life, what is important is the length of the boolet from the base to the ogive where it contacts the lands. This affects the usable case volume and the jump to the lands.

If the cartridge overall length varries because of the point of the bullet it means nothing. What is important is how consistant the length is from the base of the cartridge to the ogive where it contacts the lands.

Example: My 308 Win slugs .308" Groove and .300" Bore.
With a Stoney Point O.A.L. gage that has a .300" hole in it I measure from the base of the cartrige to the .300" diameter on the ogive. This measurement is compaired with what I got when using the Stoney Point Modified case to measure cartridge overall length at BORE DIAMETER.

This allowes me to know how far away from the lands the bullet is.