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Thread: 6.5x55 mm

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    6.5x55 mm

    hello,
    i am new to this forum , and after spending countless hours on reading about the
    paperpatched bullets i decided to register .
    i would really want to try this paperpatching , but the more i read , the more it puzzles me.
    as i found out by now , i didn t select the most easy cartridge , but i like to exeriment with it though.
    the rifle of choice , gonna pick it up next saturday, is a cg 63 target rifle , and i wonder if anyone can give me a good startingpoint.
    the tools i have so far are a lyman lubesizer with a 50/50 mix of beeswax and vaseline in it , a press , and good casting equipment , as i already cast the wadcutter
    bullet for my revolver.
    i ordered for a lyman bulletmould nr 266469 , and the m die from lyman , wich will be here in about three weeks or so.
    i am looking for a startingpoint as in the powderchoice , and amount of , so i can get this in advance.
    im looking for an upper midrangeload , my thinking would be unique , but im looking for suggestions from you more experienced reloaders.
    any suggestions are highly appreciated !

    for now.... greetings from holland!

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy Haggway's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard. I am trying to figure all this stuff out myself.
    Lets see a picture of the rifle.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard, edwin41.

    Unique is not going to come close to mid-top end loads. For that you'll need a slow powder that fills the case almost completely and maybe a filler to protect the boolit base. Not cast in stone though. My theory is that if it is possible to blow up a gun with a double charge, you will. At least choose a powder that overflows on a double charge and avoid powders that are prone to bridging - that's when the kernel's lock against each other in the powder measure and part load one case then overload the next (just making sure you know about it - took me a long time to find out about the phenomena).

    Anyway, I think ball powders might be the way to go. I've found that ball powders do less peening damage to the boolit base than stick powders and a little filler to take up the free space and compress a little reduces damage even more, even eliminates it completely as does the use of ball powder depending on conditions and alloy hardness.

    I do 303 Brit and a 25-303 loading so I'm not qualified to suggest 6.5x55 loads. However, the commonly suggested load suggestion for paper patch is normal jacketed (henceforth refered to as j-words and sometimes jaxketeds ) starting loads.

    The trick is mostly to fit the throat of your rifle, otherwise size the core to a little over bore diameter and size the patched boolit to a little over groove diameter. I just go with fitting the chamber. I also prefer the patched boolit to seat firmly in an unsized neck. That means with a little force but without compressing the boolit core or expanding the neck. The paper will grip the neck firmly enough for magazine firing. Oops, you said target rifle - single shot?

    P.S. Double check what I say - I'd hate to mislead you out of error!
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  4. #4
    Boolit Master pdawg_shooter's Avatar
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    First step "always" is to slug the bore. Get a push through sizer that will give you .001/.0015" over BORE diameter. Patch up to .001/.003 over GROOVE diameter, or as large as will fit the throat. Load a slow enough powder to give as near as possible to 100% load density. Make sure your patches don't overlap on the last wrap. Good luck on patching those little bullets, my old hands wont take it any more. Most important, have fun!
    45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    I shoot paper patch boolits in my Swede M96 with very good effect. It has a chamber that should be similar to your cg 63. Several boolits work, but the best so far is the "Cruise Missile" 175gr. one. I size it to .259" which gives me a patched diameter of .2655 with the paper I am using. Loaded over as much Hodgdon Retumbo as I can get in the case, topped by .3cc BPI plastic shot buffer those loads pretty much duplicate the military ball ammo and track to the sights out as far as we have targets at our range. (750 yards) I haven't chronographed those loads but Quickload says I should be in the 2600 fps range.

    I have also used the BRP 130gr. Kurtz boolit in this rifle. Powder was Accurate 3100. It is also quite accurate to 300M but does not track with the sights at longer ranges and evidently has a rather poor BC since it falls apart somewhere between 385 and 500M.

    I don't know if you can get them in Holland, but Ranch Dog in Texas sells a .258" Lee push through sizer. At first it was useless but 5 minutes with a split dowel and sandpaper smoothed out the transition and allowed me to size down .268" boolits to .259 with no problem at all.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    thanks guys for the response !
    i will post some pictures and some info about the rifle sometime soon as im picking it up tomorrow. yes i plowed through many , many threads on this forum , but info on the 6.5 mm is kind of little and confusing to me.
    the majority of hints and tips direct me to a powder that will fill up the casing, and when i look into my lyman reloadingbook for the jacked bullet of near weight then reloader 22 powder is the slowest .. 42.3 gr should give a velocity of 2275 fps.
    but i also read that a charge of about 10 to 11 gr of unique powder holds the best chance of accurasy for the lubed cast bullets.
    so this is whats getting me puzzled , unique would be a more economical option.
    never paperpatched before , im waiting for the mouldblocks to come in , 266469.
    i intend to use a soft casted bullet to determine the boresize , and then i would have the measures to order a lyman h&i sizer.
    maby im kind of lucky with the cg 63 barrel though , the swedisch mausers have an very fast twist of 1 to 200mm where the cg 63 has the 1 to 2200 mm twist.
    as many know , the cg 63 started out as a m96 rifle , but was factory rebuild to a matchgrade targetrifle , in fact they only maintained the reciever, handpicked,
    of the m96 rifle. mine was rebuild by norma precision in 1969 by the way.
    kind of interesting though when you come to think about it , a factory that rebuild a rifle that was about 50 years old ? why not make a new one ?
    but im drifting of the subject i think...
    i started out asking for a good starting point i remember....

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    mabey a nice foto for .303 guy...?
    first foto is a standerd .303 casing , the second foto is the same casing ,
    but now i have copperplated it.
    i was and am experimenting with copperplating different things, also did some castbullets this way with different results.
    Last edited by edwin41; 06-12-2012 at 03:49 AM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thank you! An application immediately comes to mind - case identification. I have more 303's than there are case head stampings available. See what I'm getting at? One of my rifles has a very distinctive shoulder shape so that one's OK, but the others ... well, copper plating one or two head stampings would cover the rest.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    now i have some ideas and wonder what you guys think of them.
    i tried some patching on a little wooden dowel of 6.5 mm dia , i used ordinairy printingpaper since i have some . i cut them and put them in some water and wrap the dowel with it. i nearly always tear up the paper though.
    now i rememberred that i had a little cleaning device that produces a steam.
    so i cut another patch , but now i wet it with steam... guess what , i could easily
    roll very thight , and more important , the tail twisted far better.
    anyone else tried this ?
    another idea , i read that its a plus to leave the neck of the case as fired.
    when my patched bullet is a little smaller , maby i could dip the lower end in some hot melted beeswax , or mabey melted candels, and then they would size themselfs to the caseneck for a firm fit ?
    i also read that some filler of plastic slivers to protect the bullets base works good.
    can i just put a drop of glue from a hotgluegun on the bulletsbase to reproduce this?
    then i would leave a sleave on the paperpatch , put a drop of hot glue in this funnel
    and then twist the tail , or fold it over the glue.
    since the bullet and the path would be wet , the glue would not stick to both of them i think ?
    just some ideas from the top of my head though , not sure any of them might work.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    well .303 guy ,
    all you need really is a little canister , a 1.5 penlight battery , a little piece of copper
    and some mixture of coppersulfate with batteryacid.
    when you are interested , ive put fotos and explenation on another forum,
    "the high road". [also a great forum !].
    use the search mode and type in "copperplating" .

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    for the record , i also really like the lee enfield rifle !
    this is the one i use from time to time at the range , it a club owned rifle, in my homemade gunrest...
    Last edited by edwin41; 06-12-2012 at 03:49 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobade View Post
    I shoot paper patch boolits in my Swede M96 with very good effect. It has a chamber that should be similar to your cg 63. Several boolits work, but the best so far is the "Cruise Missile" 175gr. one. I size it to .259" which gives me a patched diameter of .2655 with the paper I am using. Loaded over as much Hodgdon Retumbo as I can get in the case, topped by .3cc BPI plastic shot buffer those loads pretty much duplicate the military ball ammo and track to the sights out as far as we have targets at our range. (750 yards) I haven't chronographed those loads but Quickload says I should be in the 2600 fps range.

    I have also used the BRP 130gr. Kurtz boolit in this rifle. Powder was Accurate 3100. It is also quite accurate to 300M but does not track with the sights at longer ranges and evidently has a rather poor BC since it falls apart somewhere between 385 and 500M.

    I don't know if you can get them in Holland, but Ranch Dog in Texas sells a .258" Lee push through sizer. At first it was useless but 5 minutes with a split dowel and sandpaper smoothed out the transition and allowed me to size down .268" boolits to .259" with no problem at all.
    Now that I got a push-through adapter from The Perfesser I can finally push-through size to .259" without bending boolits, PP and Swede, here I come!

    What paper did you use for those, onionskin? Do you remember the OAL? My CM mould drops boolits .265" on the nose and .2715" on the bands with wheel weight alloy.

    I also have the 266673, but wish I'd bought the 266469 to, as as well as the BRP 268469.

    Gear
    Gear

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    maby i could dip the lower end in some hot melted beeswax , or mabey melted candels, and then they would size themselfs to the caseneck for a firm fit ?
    I have tried this but only fired them into my 'test tube'. They do not hold in the neck as firmly as plain paper but it does work. Loss of compressibility of the paper and also the loss of air in the paper may be a problem, I don't know. You could try something like boot polish that doesn't saturate the paper but puts a build up on the surface. I'd suggest trying a thicker paper like printer paper which is quite compressible.

    The No4 Lee Enfield in it's original form is really quite a handsome rifle. Went hunting with my sporterized No4 today, in the wet and steep bush.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    ill try to put some fotos of my new rifle in this post.
    as mentioned , its a cg 63 , build in 1902 , and rebuild by norma precision in 1967.
    note the NP stamps ... as these stand for N orma P recision.
    the diopter you see is the original soderin type , note the close up of the stock,
    this barrel is freefloating , and stamped NP.
    i really like this gun , i hope it shoots as well as it looks !
    Last edited by edwin41; 06-12-2012 at 03:50 AM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Haggway's Avatar
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    That is a beatiful rifle.
    Last edited by Haggway; 05-06-2012 at 10:04 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    A very fine-looking machine, indeed.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    okay , yet another question .
    ive read somewhere in another post that it was key to let the bullet stick out of the case far enough so that the patch was tight to the rifling.
    i was always under the impression that this would boost up the pressures very high.
    is this the reason why i should pick a REAL slow powder ?
    in another post it was mentioned to leave the neck unsized , have the o.a.l. of the cartridge
    way too long , and let the bullet do the final setting ?
    [ i kindda like that idea !]
    anyone has experience with this , that would explain this technique to me?
    further , what would happen if i would let the patched bullet not touch the rifling , like about
    one or two millimeters?
    would this lowers the pressure , more important, would the patch survive to do its job ?
    i would like to feed the bullets trough the magazine by the way .
    questions questions... i have enough of those.
    seems to be that the more i read the less i know , and havent fired my rifle once .
    thats gonna chance real soon i might add !
    your input is much appreciated !
    Last edited by edwin41; 05-06-2012 at 06:02 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Linstrum's Avatar
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    Hi, edwin41, this is about powder selection and not your current question about exposed bullet length.

    I have two Swedish Mausers, a m96 and a m96/38. I shoot a 140 grain SAECO cast projectile made from Linotype using IMR 5010 propellant, which is a slow propellant specifically used for the .50 caliber BMG cartridge. I don't do paper patching or shoot a heavier projectile, but most of us who shoot the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser have figured out that slow propellants like IMR 7828, IMR 5010, WC860, WC870, WC872, and other similar propellants have the best potential for good results in that cartridge. With that said, for messing around and plinking I do shoot real light loads of Unique. But for serious target work I use the slow propellants. Even with slow propellants, I found out the hard way that it is possible to get excessively high pressure in the 6.5x55, so be darned sure to start low and work your loads up. Like was already said, you want to get as close to a full case as possible, but be careful getting there! I don't know what the rate of twist is in the CG63, but the m96 and m96/38 it is a fast 1 turn in 7.5 inches (1 turn in 190 mm) and when the velocity got to a certain point for my 140 grain linotype boolits I had a lot of trouble with them breaking up and keyholing. Of course accuracy just plain went down the crapper!

    Good Luck!

    rl 1115
    ~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+
    There is no such thing as too many tools, especially when it comes to casting and reloading.
    Howard Hughes said: "He who has the tools rules".

    Safe casting and shooting!

    Linstrum, member F.O.B.C. (Fraternal Order of Boolit Casters), Shooters.com alumnus, and original alloutdoors.com survivor.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    'Normal' loading practices call for clearance around the neck and a little clearance into the lands. Paper patching turns it all upside down. I've loaded cartridges with the boolit tight into the neck without sizing the core with the neck tight into the chamber such that there is no expansion room around the neck to release the boolit plus the boolit chambered tight into the rifling (but still able to be extracted without moving it in the case. No apparent signs of high pressure. The paper is compressible and acts like a lubricant on the boolit and enters the bore easily. Those who have measured velocity report higher muzzle velocity with paper patch than jacketed and plain cast with the same powder charge. Higher velocity could mean higher pressure too but apparently pressures are lower as well as the velocity higher. Anyway, my loads are much lower than 'normal' jacketed loads. It has been said to use 'normal' starting loads for paper patching.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    thanks guys for the replys..
    i think i got the information i need to give it a try.
    still waiting for the bulletmould to come in , till then im gonna shoot some factorie ammo.
    not perticular fond of this , but at least im gonna end up with some casings.
    will let you know how the rifle performs with the fac. ammo some time soon.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check