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Thread: Recipes for "Mouse Fart" Loads in 30-06

  1. #121
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just1man View Post
    ....Would there be much load variation for 308 vs 06? You mention no fillers required. Does this hold true no matter the barrel position...You mention large primers, do you also drill the flash hole larger for these loads? Sorry for the slew of questions!....Thank you
    Smaller case volume of .308 requires full grain charge reduction from '06!

    .30-30 data is good for starting cat sneeze loads in .308. Reduce the .30-30 data a full grain for 7.62x39.

    DO NOT enlarge flash holes. Doing so is Unnecessary and is unsafe if you inadvertently mix up cases and put a full charge in.

    With the fast-burning pistol and shotgun powders no filler is necessary or recommended. Doing so raises pressure and you can ring the chamber neck of an '06 in doing so, which I have done...
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  2. #122
    Boolit Mold Bodean74's Avatar
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    Trying the bullseye load next weekend looking forward to seeing how it does

  3. #123
    Boolit Buddy
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    I just worked up a load with 8 grn. Tite Wad 68grn PC'd gas checked .224's . I'm shooting these in a 1:7 twist AR, single shot style. What a hoot!

    CC

  4. #124
    Boolit Master
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    Am interested in trying .309" 110-120gr in a .308Win, but had two questions for the folks here:
    • I have plenty of both Bullseye and Red Dot; I'm inclined to start with RD first as I think it may be a better choice. Any other opinions?
    • Also, what might be a maximum charge to maintain subsonic velocities? I'm guessing ~4 grs of BE.

    Thanks,

  5. #125
    Boolit Master Mauser48's Avatar
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    I'll make my contribution to this excellent thread. This load is not really super light like a mouse far load, more like a opossum fart load. It consists of a lee c309-113 bullet tumble lubed and gas checked on 10 grains of 700x with winchester large rifle primers. Seat depth 2.870. I managed a 0.473 inch group at 35 yards with it. I think it's around 1600 fps. Great 100 yard load to practice shooting prone, standing, etc. I use it in my 1903-A3. A member here sent me the bullets to try. After a lot of research I found some data. I'm going to start casting these soon myself.

  6. #126
    Boolit Man
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    In my 308 and 30-06 I use the rcbs 180 grs ans the lyman 311399. Powder: VV N110, N120,and Lovex D060.Sized 309 .No filler .
    Weelweigt ,+5% Tinn + 30% printlead. Alu and Saga GC.
    Gives an exelent result.

  7. #127
    Boolit Mold
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    My Standard mouse fart

    7.5 grns of trail boss and the Lee 113 gr bullet has been a standard carry for years in my pack. I've shot it out to 200 yards with good accuracy and have head shot a fair number of tree rats in closer. The load is just plain fun !!

  8. #128
    Boolit Master
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    I use 5.0 gr Bullseye with the NOE 311-115 in 06 and 30/40 AI. Not sure of velocity but definitely subsonic and accurate at 25-50 yards.

  9. #129
    Boolit Mold
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    I've been making mouse fart 30 06 loads for a few decades using unique ,2400 ,4756 ,herco,and trail boss. I'm sure many shooters have done the same. Where i seem be different with mine is bullet weight . Mostly using 77 gr 32 pistol bullets. I've gotten several recipes to shoot well enuf to use for squirrel with confidence.Shooting 1 inch groups at 50 yrd. 4756 with 3.5grns and no fillers is a favorite giving great groups with minimal reports sounding like a 22 rim fire short.

  10. #130
    Boolit Master
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    I have purchased a NOE 30 caliber airgun pellet mold which shows the skirts to be .308 caliber at a weight of 59 grains. The .22 pellets being shot from the 22 centerfires with primers, some using cases drilled out for. 209 shotshell primers and even some with .5 grains to 1.0 grains of Bullseye seem to work well and quieter than other loads, I aim to try 30 caliber pellets in my 30 cal. Central fires in a similar manner. I just wanted to post this so maybe someone else could also have a go at this and keep this wonderful thread alive. I'm old and getting slow so it may be a little while before I post a result so in the meantime you others get on the stick and beat me to it with some results.

  11. #131
    Boolit Master
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    Please read the book about The White Sniper, Finnish sniper who was a reloader of catsneeze loads and used them to great effect during the Russian invasion of Finnland.
    He crept up in the night and popped the Russians with head shots using only open sighted Moisin Nagant 7.62 from 25 to 75 yards away while they sat round a roaring big fire drinking vodka trying to keep warm at night behind the front lines. They were freezing cold and couldn't even hear the mousefart loads he used with 220 grain jacketed bullets loaded over tiny loads of blank powder . In those days the Finns in the National Guard issued loading equipment to their men and encouraged their men to learn how to shoot by showing them how. Later on the Russians used the same tactics against the Nazi hordes that invaded Russia. The Russian guerillas would sit in trees overhead the Nazi Panzers with their roaring engines and shoot catsneeze/mousefart loads down into the top of the Nazism riding on their tanks and they would just slump over asleep. They would be a hundred yards away with only a tiny hole in the top of the helmet or head before being discovered falling off the tank. Not knowing they were shot from overhead. The Finns and the Russians also used round ball loads as well by breaking down pistol ammo to get a small fast powder charge to load their lead and jacketed loads. The catsneeze/mousefart loads were used to great effect in all wars since the first World War till now. They are still in use today. It is a secret that only handloaders and knowledgeable rifleshooters share.
    Nuff said. You get the rest if you are reading this.

  12. #132
    Boolit Master
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    Simo Hayha ,with umlauts above the o and a's in his name, is the name of the Finnish sniper known as "White Death".

  13. #133
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    Alferd that is interesting of what was done during the wars. Thank you for shearing it .
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  14. #134
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry about all the blather but my my Dad always said knowledge taken to the grave is just wasted. So please share.

  15. #135
    Boolit Master
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    I read the book "the white sniper"
    Didn’t mention using the use of reduced loads or shooting from tops of trees either.
    There maybe a few books written about his and his platoons endeavours thou.

  16. #136
    Boolit Master
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    Hi Bd

    Hi Bruce,
    The White Sniper mentions the guard units issuing reloading gear and supplies to the members along with instruction by older members.
    The Russians were the enemy during the winter war.
    In the 1960's I had access to the Library at West Point Academy in New York and Ft. Benning,GA
    They have books and books and films that explain and educate interested soldiers on various forms of warfare . .
    The White Sniper actually said Simo never shot from up in a tree down into the enemy, but other books on guerilla warfare do say that hollowed out trees were used for observation and sniping many times during the first World War as well as the Second and on up till the present day.
    The use of Spider Holes were used by the Japanese to shoot attacking soldiers from behind as they bypassed camouflaged enemy emplacements on the Islands. American Indians were known to have used the same tactics in wars with each other and the white man.
    Over fifty years ago i was priveleged to meet and talk to many of the soldiers who were there in the wars and conflicts and would answer my questions about how things were done.
    At the time, some of those who were there said there are a lot of secret things that should not be made public knowledge as the enemy can use them against us in time of war.
    The few things i have mentioned here are common knowledge and are pretty widely
    known by combat veterans i think.
    I got to talk to some vets from Finnland who emigrated to the US due to have served in the US Armed Forces in WW2.*

  17. #137
    Boolit Master
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    The people who grew up in Finnland and lived outside the cities are just like the people who grew up in Alaska outside the cities.They know about guns and reloading and how to survive in the forest and bush in winter and summer . The White Sniper was one of these, but trained for war as well. He said he just did his job the best he knew how.

  18. #138
    Boolit Bub
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    Last night I made two rounds 8mm Mauser, a 22lr case of Bullseye (3.3 gn) and a 87 gn round nose for 32 ACP that I made from a Lee 311-93 mold and lubed with Johnson's paste wax. I shot one this morning at 50 feet in my Turk Mauser and hit below the target. Still, it left the barrel and was quieter than a 22. I made 3 more before 10 AM, the canonical hour that my 2 or 3 geezer friends and I shoot in my back yard. Each guy got a round, and after each shot I slid the ramrod down to make sure the boolit exited. The other guys got much better accuracy than I. Well.
    Last edited by olgandalf; 09-08-2020 at 05:48 PM. Reason: error

  19. #139
    Boolit Master
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    Isint the lee .311 93 to small a diameter for a 8 mm Mauser? I use that bullet in a savage axis 308 with 3.2 of bullseye sized to .311. It shoots great.

  20. #140
    Boolit Master
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    You can paper patch any of the 30 caliber and get them to fit the 8mm bore for shooting.Paper patching done correctly shrinks the patch tightly onto the bullet like a second skin.
    You got to work with it until you understand it.
    It doesn't work very well if you just give it a one time try. Read up on it and work with it and you will begin to see why its useful.
    The bullets I paper patched were 150 and 170 grain 30 cal.bullets to use in an 8mm rifle barrel. Never tried a short bullet like a 93 grain 32 caliber. I would be tempted to roll two of them butted base to base and thereby have a longer bullet to work with.
    No reason why it wouldn't work for short range shooting.
    Experimenting is what it's all about for fun.
    I was considering wrapping aluminum foil tightly around a .30 caliber bullet and then a paper patch for the finish.
    Would aluminum foil scratch the bore?
    Maybe all foil?
    Never know till its tried and tested.
    Last edited by Alferd Packer; 01-13-2021 at 01:30 AM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check