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Thread: Recipes for "Mouse Fart" Loads in 30-06

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Recipes for "Mouse Fart" Loads in 30-06

    Buddy of mine wants to play with low noise/velocity loads in a pre-64 M-70. The only boolits available to us right now are 311440s and (when it arrives) the Lee 311-93-RN.

    Anybody got proven suggestions for such things?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    One of my favorite gallery loads for my 03 is a 311466 sized at .311" over a charge of seven and a half grains of Unique or Universal Clays . Out to about thirty-five yards it hits right where the battle sight of the 03 is looking .

    I haven't used Bullseye for the loads you are looking for in a very long time but that did work as well in very moderate charges . It was also about as loud as a handclap .

    Jack

  3. #3
    Boolit Master HighHook's Avatar
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    The lee 93 sized to .311 w/ 3 gr bulls is the ticket for addiction...
    High Hook

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I'm at 12.5g of unique in my .308 right now. I still have to fight 'the grins' while I'm shooting. Everyone I have let shoot it just laughs and laughs, followed with a 'care if I try just a couple more?'

    10g of unique is the standard to measure everything by. Try that. If that recoils too much maybe a .22LR would suit better.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Dean, what boolit are you using?

  6. #6
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    I'd go with 3.2 gr Bullseye under that 93 gr Lee bullet. Tumle lightly in LLA and size at .311. A .31 cal M die will work a bit better than the .30 M die for the PB'd smallish .311 sized bullets.

    Larry Gibson

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan in Vermont View Post
    Dean, what boolit are you using?
    It's a lee mold, 160g tumble lube spitzer made for 7,62x39. With check in place, it weighs a perfect 168g. Sized to .311

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    trailboss will be your best friend. I suggest a 9 oz can and start playing. Can't go wrong!

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Anybody got proven suggestions for such things?
    not proven, but a case-full of Trail Boss (NOT COMPRESSED!) may be a good place to start

    EDIT:
    http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20B...oads%20R&P.pdf
    Last edited by gofastman; 09-23-2012 at 12:57 PM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy Haggway's Avatar
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    I use sr4759, and trail boss. in 30-06, 3040 krag, and 303 brit.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gofastman View Post
    not proven, but a case-full of Trail Boss (NOT COMPRESSED!) may be a good place to start
    Don't you just sound like quite the genius.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan in Vermont View Post
    Don't you just sound like quite the genius.
    Trailboss gets my vote too, for what you are wanting to do
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  13. #13
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    5-6 grains of Bullseye and the 311440 is what I would use. I get good accuracy out to 100 yds using it and the 155 gr lee bullet
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I use the Lee .314" 90gr SWC sized to .311 for .30-06 or sized to .314 for the .303 Brit, and pushed by 2.7grs of Unique for garden pest control, and both are accurate and shoot to the iron sights out to 45yds, but I haven't tried them further so cant speak for accuracy or effect further out. Inside that 45yd range, they handle ANY garden pest with steam to spare, so still have to be careful of a safe backstop like any other round. Noise level is about equal to my pellet pistol when these are fired in a 1917 in '06 or a Enfield in .303, but much more effective than any pellet or .22 LR I have tried.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Don't you just sound like quite the genius.
    go on....


    Its simply not possible to create an overpressure 30-06 round with trail boss, as long as its not compressed.
    a full case may get you 30-40k psi

    EDIT:
    http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20B...oads%20R&P.pdf
    Last edited by gofastman; 09-23-2012 at 12:57 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you for the clarification, now it makes sense.

    My buddy saw something about foraging loads in (I think) Backwoodsman, which is what got him fired up to play with them.

    I've loaded the Lee 93 gr. ahead of 5.0/Unique in 30-30 cases for my 94. I fired two to check noise/recoil level as I wanted something real gentle/quiet for my recoil shy granddaughter. Got to get out and check zero before I have her shooting it.

    Waiting for my own mold to arrive, the ones I loaded were some another shooter gave me to try. I had planned to see how those shot before I sprung for a mold but I had an order going to Midsouth and figured I'd crowd as much as I could afford into one order.

  17. #17
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    Bullseye will work better than unique. With Unique many time you have to get the bullet at to high a velocity for it to ignite and burn efficiently. Bullseye ignites well and burns efficiently at a much lower psi.

    Larry Gibson

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Bullseye will work better than unique. With Unique many time you have to get the bullet at to high a velocity for it to ignite and burn efficiently. Bullseye ignites well and burns efficiently at a much lower psi.

    Larry Gibson
    Larry , that is something I haven't thought of and it brings me to a question . Is there a rule of thumb for how much Bullseye instead of Unique to use ? Reason I ask is one of my favorite loads in the aught six case with a hundred fifty-five grain bullet uses seven and a half grains of Unique . I'm pretty sure load data is not available for loads this low .

    Thanks , Jack

  19. #19
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    Jack

    That load data was available 100+ years ago. Was loaded with a M1906 bullet and was known as a "Guard" load. If you read many of the old writers they used around 6 gr in the 30-30 under a 311291 or similar PB"d cast bullet or 6.5 - 7.5 gr in the '06 for use as a "foraging" or practice load. Whelen had a load he used in the M1903 with the 311008 loaded with a Ideal tong tool that was very similar.

    As to a "rule of thumb" having shot lots of such in rifles over the years I've found that lighter weight pistol bullets most often shoot more accurately at 800 - 950 fps with such loads. Thus I use 2.7 gr Bullseye in cases from 7.62x39 to 300 Savage in capacity with 90 - 118 gr PB'd pistol bullets. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye in .308W to '06 capacity cases with the same bullets. Those 2 loads have always worked in any .30 or .31 cal rifle. In .35 call rifles I've found that 120 - 160 gr pistol bullets also are the most accurate in the 800 - 950 fps range. I use 4 - 6.5 gr with those in the .35 Rem, .358W and 35 Whelens. Case that show that speckled crack around the web expansion ring signaling incipient case head seperation that haven't actually seperated yet are great to use with these loads. There is no real psi and these cases get a new lease on life and last practically forever with these 2.7 - 3.2 gr Bullseye loads under a 90 gr SWC or even the HBWCs sold by Hornady and Speer.

    With low end loads rifle cast bullets I've found they shoot very accurately if cast soft and PB'd or GC'd at 1050 - 1200 fps, most often right around 1150 fps. I use Bullsey with those also using 6 - 8 gr depending on what it takes to get into that velocity range. Above 1200 fps Unique most often works better.

    I also use light weight PB'd cast bullets in the 8x57, the .375 H&H and the 45-70. I use 6.5 gr+ depending on what is also needed to get the bullets to 1050 - 1200 fps. I do use 4 gr Bullseye in the 375 H&H with a 375 RB lightly lubed with LLA for 900 fps and a very deadly small game load to 50-75 yards.

    I also have used 200 gr .30 and 8mm very soft cast bullets loaded down to 300 fps with success although it takes about 500 fps to get to 50 yards with the ladder milsurp sights. Using 1.5 to 2.7 gr bullseye gets you to those low end "cat's sneeze" velocities. Bullets must be cast of pure lead or 40-1 or they may stick in the barrel. A ight coat of LLA is all that's need for lube. Also if a rimless case is used you might consider well fire formed cases with the flash holes drilled (#30 - 28) to avoid the shortening of the cases headspace.

    Larry Gibson

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    Thank you very much Larry , that is helpful information and if I can get by with a lesser charge of Bullseye I can get more shots per pound too .

    Thanks again , Jack

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check