StainLess Steel MediaMidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2Graf & Sons
Titan ReloadingBallisti-CastLee PrecisionInline Fabrication
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34

Thread: subsonic 45/70

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192

    subsonic 45/70

    I am attempting to build a sub-sonic load for a 45/70. I have decided to use the RCBS 500 grain boolit in one of my Marlins. Weighs 521 gr. out of my alloy, I have tried 2 powders so far. Worked up to 14 gr Unique, and up to 24 gr of 5744. The 5744 seems to have the accuracy edge throughout the charge range,21-24 gr, but the Unique load, from 12 to 14gr. is by far the quieter. I am looking for the quietest load I can find that will run just below the sonic level. Needs to deliver "hog" accuracy from 50-70 yards. So far the Unique loads are delivering "OK" accuracy of about 2 inches at 50 and the 5744 loads are delivering about 1.5 inch at the same distance. Has anyone else experimented in this area? and if you did, what powders, or combinations did you use?
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192
    I suppose I should say I am looking for the quietest hunting loads that are effective at 50-75 yards, and which powders would be the best. (I know from experience it isn't H335!)I am going to try Blue dot tomorrow
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  3. #3
    Boolit Master frnkeore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central point, OR
    Posts
    934
    My subsonic 45/70 load is 10.0 gr of Unique with a 430 gr bullet. 971 fps in a 31" 20 twist, heavy barrel single shot. My best 5 group was .84 @ 100.

    Frank

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

    Shiloh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Upper Midwest
    Posts
    11,921
    Talked to a guy today who has a Springfield Trapdoor. Loads it with a 500 gr at about 900 fps. with black powder.

    Shiloh
    "A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves."
    Bertrand de Jouvenel

    “Any government that does not trust its citizens with firearms is either a tyranny, or planning to become one.” – Joseph P. Martino

    “If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert , in five years there would be a shortage of sand.” – Milton Friedman

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Artful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Valley of the SUNs, AZ
    Posts
    8,066
    The hodgdon manual lists 12-13 grains Trailboss for the 405 bullet.
    It also lists 8-10 grains Trailboss for the 485 gr bullet.

    Marlin group discussion
    http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45...lboss.html#new

    and another link
    http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

    and another
    http://www.reloadammo.com/4570load.htm

    some of my older manual have 2400 as powder for subsonic - and some have put in a case capacity reducer plug especially for subsonic loading with fast pistol powders.

    this as been discussed before here
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=130159
    for example - might just want to run a search.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    2,954
    Trailboss is your powder. Or Tin Star if you want to spend the bucks.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192
    Thanks, artful, I did a search here, but I didn't bring up that thread, I will set up the chronograph today, and shoot some more. By the looks of one of the sources of data, my 5744 load is probably going supersonic, so that is the reason it is a lot noisier.
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Artful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Valley of the SUNs, AZ
    Posts
    8,066
    Ya need to use your chronograph my friend - I use just a cheap Chrony F-1 - got it here...
    http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchan...uct_Code=SHTF1

    If you play with suppressor's or subsonic loading in general you really need to know what's happening.

    Some loads have different velocity with cold barrel.
    Some exhibit different velocity depending upon powder orientation in the cartridge case.
    Just changing primers can make a difference, or having lube in the barrel.
    Remember as you approach Transonic speeds the sound goes up quickly.



    and the speed of sound is relative to environmental conditions - here's a link to find for your conditions
    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-airpressure.htm

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    699
    I use 10grs Unique under a Lee 450gr FP, which weighs 462grs in my alloy. I haven't put it over the chronograph, but it has no sonic crack fired out of my H&R BCs 32" barrel. It also gives me a cloverleaf right around an inch to an inch and a half across at 50yds. At 25yds, its one ragged hole, but I haven't tried it beyond 50 so cant say how it will do at 75 yds like your stated range limit.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192
    I have loaded and fired several more of the RCBS boolits, with 14 grains of Unique, and I weight sorted these, and got a 3 shot group at 100 yards of about 1.75 inches out of the 22" Marlin 1895. I can live with this noise level, and I fired this group on a bulls eye stuck to an old washing machine at 100 yrds. The boolits went through both sides of the washer and the inner tub as well. (redneck penetration test LOL) Curious, though how fast they are going, so I'm going to chrono them later today. They weigh 521grs. I am using gaschecks on the shanks, even though i probably don't need them, I usually get a little better accuracy, and less messy to lube. I could probably tumble lube them if I were going to use a lot of them, but these are for hunting, and won't replace the 325gr. RCBS for general plinking, and I use a 340 Lee with a paper patch for higher velocity. You think your lead pot has a leak somewhere when casting these!
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Haggway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South East Texas
    Posts
    265
    All Aggie jokes aside Softpoint. This has been very useful, and will help me with some other avenues of approach on the 45-70's.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192
    Just back in the house, CED crono says my boolits are averaging 1054 fps, with a sd of 16. Probably right where I need to be. While shooting through the crono, shot another group at 100 yards. Haven't gone down there to measure it, but it doesn't look to be over about 1 3/4 inches thru the spotter. I will now try to run this load on my ballistics program if I can find the BC of this boolit somewhere, just to satisfy my curiosity as to what it is doing at 75 yards.
    No problem chronographing these loads, even though it is a bit overcast today, thes slugs should leave a shadow over the skyscreens much like a buzzard drifting over.....
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192
    Interesting, still has 1175 ft. lbs. at 75 yards. Should do anything I need this particular load to do,
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggway View Post
    All Aggie jokes aside Softpoint. This has been very useful, and will help me with some other avenues of approach on the 45-70's.
    Yup, lived all my life right here in Aggieland. My dad was in the class of '48
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  15. #15
    Boolit Master TCLouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Middle middle TN
    Posts
    3,719
    10.5 grains of a Milsurp that thinks it is Unique give me about 1100 fps with boolits of 340-378 brains out of a real Winny 1886.

    Powder is #105, but use caution there is a really fast burning Milsurp powder with the same designation which is a good reason to know which Milsurp one is working with as there are also two versions of a M-9 powder.
    If one attempts to do everything, they will likely do nothing

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192
    Quote Originally Posted by TCLouis View Post
    10.5 grains of a Milsurp that thinks it is Unique give me about 1100 fps with boolits of 340-378 brains out of a real Winny 1886.

    Powder is #105, but use caution there is a really fast burning Milsurp powder with the same designation which is a good reason to know which Milsurp one is working with as there are also two versions of a M-9 powder.
    I thought about using a little lighter boolit, as the RCBS is an alloy hog, but for hunting,I'm thinking heavy can't hurt, and for the distance I'll be using this, trajectory isn't too important.
    As an interesting side note: My .454 Casull load that I am using propels a 300 grain XTP at 1439 fps. The muzzle energy is within 5lbs. of the 45/70 load. However, the Casull load (6"barrel) drops below 1000 ft lbs. by around 85 yds. But the 45/70 load doesn't drop below 1000 ft. lbs. till about 230 yds.! Big long boolit seems to want to keep going!
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Haggway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South East Texas
    Posts
    265
    Sounds like you have gotten a good close in hogg killer there. Now what we need are some good heavy duty 45 cal suppresors for our rifles.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

    softpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bryan-College Station Tx
    Posts
    1,192
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggway View Post
    Sounds like you have gotten a good close in hogg killer there. Now what we need are some good heavy duty 45 cal suppresors for our rifles.
    I'd like to have a suppressed 45/70. I always figured suppressors weren't worth the red tape involved to legally own. Other countries, while having stricter gun laws in general, actually encourage their use.
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Haggway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South East Texas
    Posts
    265
    Quote Originally Posted by softpoint View Post
    I'd like to have a suppressed 45/70. I always figured suppressors weren't worth the red tape involved to legally own. Other countries, while having stricter gun laws in general, actually encourage their use.
    They are well worth the effort.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    282
    A suppressor would put us Canadians in jail!

    What an idiotic. Law................EH?
    lol!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check