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Thread: 25 cal nail gun blanks for Steven's SS

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

    Marvin S's Avatar
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    Thanks for the new info guys.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    A Query for the more experienced among us:

    On a 'Whim' I bid on and won an auction for a "Stevens Favorite Barrel in 25-20 caliber".
    It came in the USPS Mail today and I am in Quandary because the chamber does not match dimensions of either '25-20' cartridge I found. I have posted similar queries on Ammoguide, ASSRA, and CAS City hoping for some answers.

    I just this evening received a used Barrel in the USPS Mail that has a chamber that does not match what is marked on the barrel.

    First the barrel description:
    It is a half round-half octagon design about 26 inches long with an 8 inch full octagon section. The Muzzle end measures .807 inch diameter with a square flat end.
    The round section measures about .942 inch diameter just in front of the Octagon section.
    The Octagon section measures about .972 inch across the flats.
    The Breech end has two diameters with threads on the middle third.
    The section near the octagon measures .800 inch diameter, the threaded area seems to be .790 inch outer diameter, and the breech end measures .740 inch diameter. The 'spigot overall length measures 1.553 inches, with the .740 inch section about .695 inch long.
    Markings on the barrel are:
    "J. Stevens A. & T. Co.", "Chicopee Falls, Mass.U.S.A. PAT. APR. 17 94" on the top flat.
    "25-20" in 'roll stamp script' on the next flat.
    and "61 674" just forward of the bottom flat.
    No other markings were found.

    Second the chamber measurements:
    The chamber measurements do not match what Ammoguide has for either "25-20' cartridge, nor does the Cartridge Identifier tool come up with a match.
    Dimensions measures so far:
    Chamber depth = 1.175 inch.
    Chamber shoulder diameter = .279 inch.
    Chamber base diameter = .279 inch.
    Chamber rim cut diameter = .348 inch.
    Chamber Rim cut depth = .053 inch.
    Barrel slugs .250 Bore and .257 Groove diameters.
    Note that one of my ".250ALS" loaded cartridges will go into the chamber as found. But the barrel is 'oversize for the bullet, a .250 Diameter 50 Grain FMJ RN design.

    I am hoping someone with more experience with the older cartridges will be able to help me identify what this barrel is designed to fit (action) and fire (cartridge).

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

    PS: Added 20170316; I found a referenc eto a ".25-10 Halsted" with Dimensions and that seems to match up with this Barrel/chamber.
    According to the Writhe up it was made from .22 Hornet Cases and intended to convert from shot out .25 Stevens to a 're-bored and rifled, then Chambered' conversion to a Center Fire and re-loadable cartridge.
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 03-16-2017 at 12:39 PM.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy Carolina Cast Bullets's Avatar
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    Appears to be close to the 25-20 Single Shot cartridge

    https://www.google.com/search?q=25-2...ta%3B488%3B220

    Jerry
    Carolina Cast Bullets


    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional ! ! !

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    Jerry,
    I looked at the two "25-20" cartridges identified by Ammoguide, the "SS" and the "WCF" are both 'bottleneck design' and this chamber appears to be straight walled. the Rim diameter of the two are also larger than the rim rebate as found, which by the way is cylindrical with no signs of any wear to the rebate and only slight wear to the extractor cut walls. Another reply indicates, like my own trial as listed at the bottom of my post, that it looks like a .25 Stevens RF chamber cut into the 25-20 size barrel. Also it is suggested the barrel fits either a Model 44 or a Model 44-1/2 Stevens Action.
    Still too soon to make a decision on the information received to date.
    Thank you for the response. Also I used one of the "Ranch Dog" .25ACP bullets you sent to slug the bore and viewed under a 20 poser 'loope' it engraves rifling with sharp edges and the driving bands show contact with the groove outer diameter all the way around the bullet. I drove it nose first from the chamber to the muzzle with a 3/16 Diameter hard brass rod and a hammer. the 'hammer end of the rod was starting to mushroom by the time the bullet got to the muzzle.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  5. #25
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    I have seen them advertised as ".27 cal" whether they are or not is anybodies guess.

    After seeing how far into concrete they will drive a nail, after going through a treated 2x4; I have to agree with DLCTEX, I wouldn't do it without more info than the old my cousin's wife's brother's uncle's bookie says it will work.

    Robert
    They don't 'shoot' the nails through anything. The powder pressure drives a large metal rod, which drives the nail into the backing material. And it is at point blank range. You are literally putting the "Hilti" gun right on the surface, and pulling the trigger. I have no Idea what kind of pressure they might produce. I do know they come in at least 4 different power levels, and are color coded. I have a bunch, and was planning on making me a 'gun' to use them up. I just hadn't gotten around to it. As long as you have a good, solid breach and a decent barrel, I don't know what the trouble would be. They might, however, be too stout for an old Stevens. mike

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    Which 'color' and Caliber Loads do you have?
    I have samples of Brown/brass .22 caliber, Green/brass .25 caliber and Green/brass .27 caliber of current production.
    I also have some grey/nickel .22 caliber ones left form about forty years ago (they were purchased in late 1969 or early 1970).
    Best I did find on line a listing of the color codes and the 'power' of each load grades 1 through 12.
    It is posted on this thread earlier.

    others have posted results of their experiments on using Powder Tool Loads on the internet and generally found that grade 3 or less were very usable in antique firearms.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  7. #27
    Boolit Master



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    My stash is all older odds and ends that were sitting on shelves around the Hilti guns. When they did an inventory, they were going to throw them all away, and I said I would dispose of them! Knowing me, they grinned and said 'BE CAREFUL'. I have several hundred of different sizes and power levels. I have a couple of barrels, just need to rig up some type of receiver. Some kind of home brew like the 'Favorite', but heavier.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master



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    I didn't like that post count, so here's one more.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master



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    Hhhmmmm. Now that I think about it, I wonder what I did with them? I rearranged my room a few months ago, and haven't seen them since. Where DID I put them? GGGGGRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeym1a View Post
    My stash is all older odds and ends that were sitting on shelves around the Hilti guns. When they did an inventory, they were going to throw them all away, and I said I would dispose of them! Knowing me, they grinned and said 'BE CAREFUL'. I have several hundred of different sizes and power levels. I have a couple of barrels, just need to rig up some type of receiver. Some kind of home brew like the 'Favorite', but heavier.
    Thinking of your idea for a home brew action similar to a Stevens Favorite, There is a Thread on another Forum site where a man is machining a "Model 15 with improvements", using NC equipment, out of blocks of Tool Steel and his work that was posted to date had lots of photos of setups and parts in progress. I do not know where it is at the moment, sorry.

    Anyway, there might be some ideas you could use in his posts.

    And the strength of the action would be MUCH more than an original.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeym1a View Post
    Hhhmmmm. Now that I think about it, I wonder what I did with them? I rearranged my room a few months ago, and haven't seen them since. Where DID I put them? GGGGGRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
    I had that, and still have it, from when my wife "rearranged the house" then went into the Hospital for surgery, the surgery was successful, but she died about a week later from unrecognized complications. Now, where did she put my collection of old,reference, "Machinery's Handbooks"?
    And my AutoCAD 2002 Software???
    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    There is a Blogger on the internet that has adapted .32 Colt cartridges to use .27 Caliber Powder tool Loads in antique revolvers and Multiple barrel pistols he owns.

    http://32rimfire.blogspot.ca/

    A similar idea could be use to adapt the .25 Caliber Powder Tool Loads to fire in a .25 Stevens Chambered rifle. Perhaps a piece of thin wall tubing to hold bullet and Load conveniently for insertion in the chamber.

    Best regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 11-22-2013 at 03:22 PM.

  13. #33
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    Have you tried chambering the 17WSM? Just to see if the case diameter was the same? If so you could cut them down to size, reduce the powder load and load them with a .25 bullet...maybe? Here is a blurb about thee 17WSM that I lifted from Outdoor Life ammo review:
    "The .17 Win. Super Mag. comes with a workingman's pedigree. The case is based off a .27--caliber nail-gun blank, which was modified and necked down to take the .17-caliber bullet. (These blanks, which come in three calibers--.22, .25, and .27--are a big business for Winchester, according to Greg Kosteck, the company's marketing director.) Empty, the case measures 1.200 inches (vs. 1.064 inches for the .17 HMR). And its case walls are about 50 percent thicker than the .17 HMR's, to handle the higher pressures the round generates (33,000 psi vs. 26,000 psi for the .17 HMR)."
    Last edited by Traffer; 04-22-2019 at 08:05 AM.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    Current .25 Caliber Grade 3 Green Tipped load is in a case with the following measurements;
    Rim diameter =.296"; Rim thickness =.047"; Body diameter =.244" to .245"; Overall Length =.398" to .399"; Height to bottom of star crimp = .287"; Head Stamp = "H" inside Circle (possibly Olin/Henry?).
    Looks like the .25 power loads might fit a .22 magnum chamber, depending upon whether you have a "tight" or "loose" chamber.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina Cast Bullets View Post


    Appears to be close to the 25-20 Single Shot cartridge


    The .25-20 SS and the .25-21 are both a much longer case than the 1.175" listed above! Almost an inch longer!

  16. #36
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    Looks like someone might have botched a 25RF conversion to a 25/20 and the barrel sat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    Jerry,
    I looked at the two "25-20" cartridges identified by Ammoguide, the "SS" and the "WCF" are both 'bottleneck design' and this chamber appears to be straight walled. the Rim diameter of the two are also larger than the rim rebate as found, which by the way is cylindrical with no signs of any wear to the rebate and only slight wear to the extractor cut walls. Another reply indicates, like my own trial as listed at the bottom of my post, that it looks like a .25 Stevens RF chamber cut into the 25-20 size barrel. Also it is suggested the barrel fits either a Model 44 or a Model 44-1/2 Stevens Action.
    Still too soon to make a decision on the information received to date.
    Thank you for the response. Also I used one of the "Ranch Dog" .25ACP bullets you sent to slug the bore and viewed under a 20 poser 'loope' it engraves rifling with sharp edges and the driving bands show contact with the groove outer diameter all the way around the bullet. I drove it nose first from the chamber to the muzzle with a 3/16 Diameter hard brass rod and a hammer. the 'hammer end of the rod was starting to mushroom by the time the bullet got to the muzzle.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I have a Remington 22 nailer and a Ramset. I have drove a lot of fasteners with them. A few years ago a guy gave me a plastic bag full of "shells". They are long as a long rifle ending up in
    a crimp. They were to long for my drivers. A few yrs ago decided to use them for 4th of July
    blanks. Shot in 22 BA, rim blew out and blew the magazine out of gun.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    I have a Remington 22 nailer and a Ramset. I have drove a lot of fasteners with them. A few years ago a guy gave me a plastic bag full of "shells". They are long as a long rifle ending up in
    a crimp. They were to long for my drivers. A few yrs ago decided to use them for 4th of July
    blanks. Shot in 22 BA, rim blew out and blew the magazine out of gun.
    It's best to experiment with single shot firearms so that if the case blows out, there is less chance of damage.

    If you're just wanting to use them to make a bang, it would be easy enough to create a "slam fire" firearm with a .22 to 12-gauge chamber adapter and pieces of 3/4" and 1" steel plumbing pipe and a pipe nipple.

    Or maybe even less than that since you're just wanting noise. I'm thinking a thick flat piece of steel with a hole drilled in it the same diameter as the power load. That way, the rim would sit slightly above the steel plate. Then hit it with a small sledge hammer so that you are crushing the primer all the way around instead of just a small portion like you would with a normal rimfire firing pin.

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy Paul5388's Avatar
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    I have shot the .27 caliber power loads from a .25 Stevens. I used a 50 gr .25 ACP bullet seated from the breech. Nothing out of the ordinary happened, but I did have to use a cleaning rod to extract the spent case (I need a new extractor). That made it sort of a pain to shoot.

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have had the same experience with the .27 loads. Work fine but usually need a ramrod to extract. Breach load the bullets with a length of dowel. Have some .25 bullets from a couple of sources. Accuracy at 25 yards is as good as the Canuck factory ammo i have.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check