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Thread: 25 cal nail gun blanks for Steven's SS

  1. #41
    Boolit Master



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    I've had to use a rod to eject the brass sometimes in the bolt action .22LR that I have tested with if I'm using the #2 (brown) loads. I think it is because the nose of the cartridge is star crimped and when it expands, it binds into the chamber with more resistance than the extractor on the bolt can overcome. I don't consider that too big of a deal though. I couldn't find the size rod I wanted in brass locally, so I made one out of steel and put electrical heat shrink tubing over it so that it is fully enclosed and no steel can touch the barrel.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master


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    I have a retriever trainer that throws a padded "bird" the size of the large beer cans. Instructions are to use 22rf loads for a nail gun. I can tell you only use the mild ones the heavier ones could break you wrist and make you deaf!!!

    My dog was not gun shy but ran away on the first shot. It took 2 weeks of conditioning to have her not be afraid of gunshots again.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer in NH View Post
    My dog was not gun shy but ran away on the first shot. It took 2 weeks of conditioning to have her not be afraid of gunshots again.
    So, you're saying that it took 2 weeks for her to go deaf?

  4. #44
    Boolit Mold
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    17 wsm yes pulled bullet and emptied powder. cut the bottle neck off. loaded with minimal .17 lee powder dipper of trail boss loaded with 55 grain .257 bullet came out the barrel hit the 10 yard target, no louder than a bb gun.. need some good 25 stevens load data

  5. #45
    Boolit Master

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    Somewhat reminds me of the old fire alarm/extinguishers we had in our old farm house. Bimetal strip with a small "barrel" on the end with a 32'ish blank. The arm was under spring tension and when the bimetal melted it swung around and hit a glass bottle with the firing pin. Thus setting the round off for warning and dumping a tiny amount of soda water.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    One thing to remember if you decide to use nail gun shot charges and breech seat bullets. The lowest pressure charges wont be as hot as they would if the slug or round ball was simply inserted into the chamber or fixed on top of the charge. Inserting the bullet into the bore with a breech seating tool effectively increases chamber volume, thus lowering chamber pressures. So although the shot charges are a bit hotter than original Stevens .25RF loads, if breech seating a bullet, you've reduced the pressure.
    I've read reports people have done using both methods and checking velocities with the same gun using both methods. The breech seated bullets did reduce velocities, and they didn't exhibit excess pressures with the lowest level nail gun charges.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    The FULL standard range of "Powder Actuated Tool Loads" (PTL) is no longer available to the general Public. The Full range is from grade 1 (weakest) through Grade 12 (Strongest).
    typically:
    .22 PTL Grades 1-6 can occasionally be found with 2-4 most often available in big box Stores.
    .25 PTL Grades 2-6 can occasionally be found with 2-4 most often found.
    .27 PTL Grades 2-5 can occasionally be found with 3-4 most often found.
    Before 'things' got tight, back in the late 1960s and early 1970s .22 PTL were available from suppliers in grades 1-9 with the ones I bought in grade 7 being in Nickel Plated ".22 shot shell' shape Star crimp blanks with a Grey Tip Paint Code.
    These Grade 7 PTL Cycled a Ruger Standard Automatic pistol with a Blank Firing Adapter (BFA) on the muzzle reliably, and I used it, and them, in my Navy Reserve Counterinsurgency Training exercises very Successfully. the Charge was also very Loud, for startle effect, and at night would project a 18 inch 'flame' out the BFA vents. Very Sobering to a Trainee who 'screwed up' a Sentry's challenge procedure.

    By the way, the closest to .25 Stevens size and power is the .27 CAL Grade 2 PTL; which is slightly Loose in the .25 Stevens chamber, but can be used with care from my experiences.

    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 07-22-2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Corrected Typo. error.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I had a learning experience with the .22 cal Ammo. I have a Remington gun that uses crimped
    shells. A guy gave me several boxes of Win ammo that is long as 22lr with wad in the case mouth.
    They were to long for Rem gun chamber. Got the bright idea to let grandkids shoot them up on
    4th July. I was going to use a beat up Daisy bolt action for the purpose. I decided to shoot one
    to make sure they worked ok. When it went off it blew the magazine apart and out of the gun.
    No damage to the action, I could have fired it again. The color code on these are Red, I still have
    99 of them. Don't take any second had info on this. Different guns may work out. The condition
    of individual guns are different. I have a box of 45cal crimped power shells. They are for a punch
    that makes the holes for bolts in the web of train rail. There is no way I would fire one in my
    45/70 just because they fit.

  9. #49
    Boolit Bub Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    I use .27 cal as primers for my Wanzl Extra-Corps Gewehr M1954/67 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	224080 Caliber: 14x33Rmm Wanzl rimfire Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    To All on this Thread:
    I repeat the Color code below copied from another post (Thread: reloadable .32 rimfire brass):
    "In brass casing:
    Color-coding (Velocity)
    (1)- Grey 315 ft/s (96 m/s) 1.31 grains propellant
    (2)- Brown 385 ft/s (117 m/s)
    (3)- Green 490 ft/s (150 m/s)
    (4)- Yellow 575 ft/s (175 m/s)
    (5)- Red 675 ft/s (206 m/s)
    (6)- Purple 755 ft/s (230 m/s)

    In nickel (silver) casings:
    (7)- Grey 845 ft/s (258 m/s)
    (8)- Brown 935 ft/s (285 m/s)
    (9)- Green 1,025 ft/s (312 m/s)
    (10)- Yellow 1,115 ft/s (340 m/s)
    (11)- Red 1,205 ft/s (367 m/s)
    (12)- Purple 1,295 ft/s (395 m/s)"
    I have also run across a Brass cased Blue coded Load but do not remember where I saw it or what it's relative Power level was.
    I hope this list is of use to you.

    Dim50: What is the case of the PTL blank you fired? Red on Brass is Standard Grade 5; but Red on Nickel is standard grade 11!
    A MAJOR difference!

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  11. #51
    Boolit Master

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    Chev.William, I have had to put my RF and small caliber wildcat projects on the back burner due to having too many projects going on, most being farm and not firearm related, but I wanted to just say thanks for the wealth of info you have been providing.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    Win Yellow Brass, Red Laquered Wad

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    Win Yellow Brass, Red Laquered Wad
    That indicates they Are Grade 5 PTL charges WAY more Powerful than The Grades 1, 2 or 3 that have been used previously with varying 'success' The Strongest I have tried To date is a Grade 4 PTL in a 1915 "Favorite" action.
    The Bullet Exited the Barrel.
    The Breech Block held but bent the Pivot screw so the 'new Head space was in excess of .080".
    The PTL case head had 'ballooned to Twice the rim Thickness and moved backward out of the Adapter case.
    The PTL case rim had Vented upward with a hole about 1/.8" long by about one rim width wide.

    The pivot screw has since been replaced with one made from a Grade 8 Cap screw body, suitably machined.
    Others have stated:
    - that Grade 3 PTL seems to yield mildly supersonic velocities in both .25 CAL and .32 CAL rifles.
    - that Grade 2 PTL seems to Yield about 950fps to 1050fps out of both Calibers.
    - that Grade 1 PTL seems to yield about 600fps to 700 fps out of both calibers.
    The above is from memory rather than having checked my notes on the Subject.
    Chev. William

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    If you look at the construction of a Daisy 22 BA you will see it's not near as supportive to case as
    a falling block type action.

    Most people don't have any respect for the power of these power shells. If one were to look into
    all the specialty tools and different industrial ammo they would be surprised. I was stupid to fire
    them but I thought as unobstructed blank it would be ok. Wrong it blew bottom out of case. There
    must have been a good bit of pressure to blow the mag apart and out of gun.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    That indicates they Are Grade 5 PTL charges WAY more Powerful than The Grades 1, 2 or 3 that have been used previously with varying 'success' The Strongest I have tried To date is a Grade 4 PTL in a 1915 "Favorite" action.
    The Bullet Exited the Barrel.
    The Breech Block held but bent the Pivot screw so the 'new Head space was in excess of .080".
    The PTL case head had 'ballooned to Twice the rim Thickness and moved backward out of the Adapter case.
    The PTL case rim had Vented upward with a hole about 1/.8" long by about one rim width wide.

    The pivot screw has since been replaced with one made from a Grade 8 Cap screw body, suitably machined.
    Others have stated:
    - that Grade 3 PTL seems to yield mildly supersonic velocities in both .25 CAL and .32 CAL rifles.
    - that Grade 2 PTL seems to Yield about 950fps to 1050fps out of both Calibers.
    - that Grade 1 PTL seems to yield about 600fps to 700 fps out of both calibers.
    The above is from memory rather than having checked my notes on the Subject.
    Chev. William
    I have black ones that say grade 5. They are brass. The guy I got them from tried to talk me into getting milder ones. I have not fired any yet. I made a die swages a 22 cal boolit with a post on the bottom. I open the brass crimp slightly to accept the post and recrimp the brass onto the post so I get actual "rounds". But they are an odd shape. I have some 22lr barrels and am someday going to make a chamber on one to fit the new 25/22 post rounds. Maybe I should build that thing a little stronger than previously considered?

  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    Traffer,
    chuckling, Indubitably Yes!
    Perhaps a Chambering similar to an old Marlin model 56 which had the Body of The cartridge supported full Circumference with the rim housed in the Bolt face. the spring loaded Extractors (two on opposite sides) were retracted slightly to the outside by sloped cuts in the barrel Breech face. the extractor on the Ejection port side had a squareish face engaging the Front of the rim while the one on the opposite side had a sloped face toward the rim. This allowed the fixed ejector to force the rim past the sloped face; so the case could leave the bolt face sideways out of the Ejection port in the receiver.
    Note that Marlin left the Bottom side of the rim recess in the bolt 'open so the fresh cartridge entered the Extractors from the bottom and in case of rim failure the gasses would vent through the Magazine well out the Bottom away form the shooter's face.

    A 1890 Winchester has a single springy extractor on the side and the Bolt face has a Channel machined vertically in the Face to 'hold' the Rim, with the case body fully supported in the chamber. Rim Failures vent in both up and down in 1890 design, exposing a shooter's face to possible 'peppering' with failed rim bits and gasses.

    A Ruger 'Standard Automatic 22LR pistol has the Bolt face enclosed by the Receiver when closed and ready to fire. Ruger uses a single spring loaded pivoted extractor on the side of the bolt toward the ejection port.
    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    Traffer,
    chuckling, Indubitably Yes!
    Perhaps a Chambering similar to an old Marlin model 56 which had the Body of The cartridge supported full Circumference with the rim housed in the Bolt face. the spring loaded Extractors (two on opposite sides) were retracted slightly to the outside by sloped cuts in the barrel Breech face. the extractor on the Ejection port side had a squareish face engaging the Front of the rim while the one on the opposite side had a sloped face toward the rim. This allowed the fixed ejector to force the rim past the sloped face; so the case could leave the bolt face sideways out of the Ejection port in the receiver.
    Note that Marlin left the Bottom side of the rim recess in the bolt 'open so the fresh cartridge entered the Extractors from the bottom and in case of rim failure the gasses would vent through the Magazine well out the Bottom away form the shooter's face.

    A 1890 Winchester has a single springy extractor on the side and the Bolt face has a Channel machined vertically in the Face to 'hold' the Rim, with the case body fully supported in the chamber. Rim Failures vent in both up and down in 1890 design, exposing a shooter's face to possible 'peppering' with failed rim bits and gasses.

    A Ruger 'Standard Automatic 22LR pistol has the Bolt face enclosed by the Receiver when closed and ready to fire. Ruger uses a single spring loaded pivoted extractor on the side of the bolt toward the ejection port.
    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Yes I will be paying close attention to the extractor and bolt face. In my experimentation with 22lr i have had quite a few "case failures" in a couple different guns. In an old Remington 514 I had one blow the extractor out never to be found. The bad part was the the case ruptured in a way the allowed the gasses to exit through the firing pin hole, through the bolt, back directly into my face. Fortunately I was wearing safety glasses. Since then I have been looking carefully and critically at bolt face design. It appears from the new guns that I have that the idea of venting potential case ruptured gasses down through the magazine has been adopted as the favored way to go. I see that many rim fire bolt faces have a void on the bottom which serves that purpose. I had a couple of ruptures on these also. One splitting the metal magazine at the seam. It took me a couple of days to find the spring. lol

  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    When any of the crimped rim fire cases are blown out straight on firing they will damage the chamber of your rifle.
    EDG

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    When any of the crimped rim fire cases are blown out straight on firing they will damage the chamber of your rifle.
    How so?

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    EDG,
    Please Explain your Comment.

    I know that if a Short is fired in a Long or Long Rifle chamber, it does leave a 'burnt Powder' Ash ring at the Mouth of the short case in the Longer chamber that, if allowed to accumulate, can make extraction of a fired Long rifle difficult.

    Is this what you are referring to?

    Chev. William

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check