High lead levels, help.

[yovinny]

I had lead poisioning in the late 80's, test results were in the 50's.
Take Vitamin D and Zinc, you'r level will be almost nonexistant in a few months.
BTW, 10 really isent that bad. The old minimum for reporting was something like 30, but it was lowered back in the early 90's.

Most people get it from primer dust or all that black stuff on you'r empty cases, NOT from solid lead.

[MT Gianni]

I was tested recently. I never cast with a mask or nitrile gloves and I am in an enclosed, large shop. I always smelt outside. My levels were less than 3. I adhere to the always wash whenever I handle lead including spent primers and when cleaning firearms.

[olafhardt]

Liquid lead, like other liquids, does not have to be at its boiling point to evaporate. Leave a glass of water sitting on a table and it evaporates. Solids evaporate but usually slowly. Dry ice and freezer burnt meat are examples. If you cast you will make lead vapors.

[jcwit]

If you cast you will make lead vapors.

True, but not enough to be of any consequence.

I've been watching an ingot of lead evaporate for 10 years now, actually not much has happened. From outward appearances it still looks the same.

[DLCTEX]

You may have inhaled lead from the media used to clean cartridge cases, assuming you clean your cartridge cases. Lead residue from primers is in a dust form and very easily inhaled or transferred.

[leftiye]

Maybe drink a little mercury like the ancient chinese used to? Balance out your heavy metals! If you can afford it a little gold maybe.

[MtGun44]

No matter how wonderful you doc is, he is wrong on this issue. Don't believe what
I say - spend some time researching the issue - prove your doc is right - if you can,
what you will find is - that he is wrong.

Do what you want. You can get a white hazmat suit and SCUBA gear, if it seems like
fun to you, but it isn't going to significantly change your health status.

Stay under 40 and you will be fine. Wash your hands after handling lead, assume that
the casting and reloading areas are contaminated with lead particles, so wash after you
go there. This is not particularly hard to do, no reason to freak out. As to 12 causing problems,
I suppose it is possible, but I'll bet there are a lot more hypochondriacs than there people
actually having problems at 12.

If you don't think it is safe - take up knitting, nobody is forcing anybody to be a caster.

Bill

[dbarnhart]

Right now you have ONE data point, and it's value is not what you expected. If it were me, I would not get excited until I had TWO data points. The results of the first test could well be way off.

[Muddydogs]

No matter how wonderful you doc is, he is wrong on this issue. Don't believe what
I say - spend some time researching the issue - prove your doc is right - if you can,
what you will find is - that he is wrong.

Do what you want. You can get a white hazmat suit and SCUBA gear, if it seems like
fun to you, but it isn't going to significantly change your health status.

Stay under 40 and you will be fine. Wash your hands after handling lead, assume that
the casting and reloading areas are contaminated with lead particles, so wash after you
go there. This is not particularly hard to do, no reason to freak out. As to 12 causing problems,
I suppose it is possible, but I'll bet there are a lot more hypochondriacs than there people
actually having problems at 12.

If you don't think it is safe - take up knitting, nobody is forcing anybody to be a caster.

Bill

Not sure what he is wrong about? I have researched it and see that 9 is low like stated here and no I am not going to break out the white suit. When I go back in a couple months I will see what info he has, let him know what I know and go from there. In 3 months I need another blood draw and I plan on requesting another lead test as well. The doc might be worried about a 9 as high but at least he gives a dam.

Look guys I am not defending the Doc but all I asked was about blood lead levels and what was the thought about my level with my lack of exposure. My Doc being concerned about my level while it might not be high it is to him with the info he has. Lets face it I am probably the only caster reloader he knows, hell I bet I'm the only guy he was had drop his pants exposing an XD. 40 and to his credit he didn't miss a beat or say a word. At least he is saying something about my level. Weather right or wrong he has to follow hospital proticals and rules to protect himself. Now what happens if he said a 9 is nothing to worry about, I check in to it and find that the great gov says that at a 9 I am over by 4 what evers and going to die. I then contact the hospital and complain or hell lets sue and get rich?

I found from this thread that I should be watching my tumbler dust probably more then anything.

[Windyvista]

For over 15 years I worked as the Environmental, Health and Safety Manager at a company prior to moving into my current position. One key issue is in the frequency of exposure. In industry, OSHA does not require a Lead exposure program to be in effect unless the employee is exposed to the action level (30 micrograms of lead) for 30 days out of the year. At an level of 30 micrograms/cubic meter of air, you can not see the lead in the air and this is what gives many people the wrong security. They don't think they can see it so they don't think it is there, but as many have indicated, it is and you will get deposits. Then as people get lead on their clothes and hands, they may also not see it but if they don't wash properly, they can easily ingest lead. OSHA states that if an employee were to work more than 30 days at 30 microgram/m3 exposure, then they have to be tested for blood lead levels every 6 months. If the level stays below 40 micrograms/decaliter of blood, then it just gets tested again in 6 months. If a person goes above 60, they need to be removed from lead exposure and can not go back to working with lead until the blood level drops below 40. So as you can see, OSHA would have no concerns of blood levels under 10, even year round. The big thing to remember though is that children are much more susceptible at way lower levels of lead exposure. So crawling around the floor of you workshop would not be recommended.

Another item that needs to be taken into account is personal hygiene differences. I can tell you with personal experience that hygiene counts. We had multiple individuals performing the same task but all but one had blood levels below 10 when tested. The one was over 20. We talked with the individual and he improved his work practices to avoid lead dust creation and on his next test, he joined the ranks of those below 10 and stayed there.

Wet clean your work area when done. Avoid dry brushing if at all possible. After working with lead, I would also recommend removing clothing and washing it rather than wearing it around children.

Remember air exposure is in terms of micrograms, not milligrams. To relate this to powder which we typically measure in grains, 1 microgram = 0.000015 grains so 30 micrograms would be 0.00045 grains in a cubic meter. As you can see, this levels are not huge. Generally speaking though, unless there is lead exposure, individuals will be in the low single digits on their blood lead levels. It usually takes lead exposure such as stained glass or other soldering with lead solder, shooting / reloading or industrial applications to get it above 10.

[threedflyer]

I am curious to hear what symptoms those of you had who suspected lead poisoning?
I have been working with lead quite a bit lately including handling it, casting, loading etc.

[Windyvista]

Threedflyer,

The biggest issue is that many of the effects of lead on the body go unnoticed. Here is a statement on lead effects from the CDC and as you can see the impacts of lead include increased blood pressure, neuological and reproductive effects. I don't know if you have any young children but they are much more susceptible to lead effects on their developing nervous system and their lead levels need to be 1/4 ( less than 10 mg/dl blood) that of an adult.

From the CDC webiste...
The effects of lead are the same whether it enters the body through breathing or swallowing. Lead can affect almost every organ and system in your body. The main target for lead toxicity is the nervous system, both in adults and children. Long-term exposure of adults can result in decreased performance in some tests that measure functions of the nervous system. It may also cause weakness in fingers, wrists, or ankles. Lead exposure also causes small increases in blood pressure, particularly in middle-aged and older people and can cause anemia. Exposure to high lead levels can severely damage the brain and kidneys in adults or children and ultimately cause death. In pregnant women, high levels of exposure to lead may cause miscarriage. Highlevel exposure in men can damage the organs responsible for sperm production.

[KaliforniaRebel]

When it comes to inahalation fears, the keyword is: Outdoors.

Melt outdoors, cast outdoors, and shoot outdoors. Just that easy.

[303Guy]

It turns out that lead is a lot more toxic than one might suspect. Not everyone is affected the same way but the effects can be serious and dramatic and it doesn't take that much lead to do nerological damage.

ScienceDaily (Dec. 7, 2009) — Young adults with higher blood lead levels appear more likely to have major depression and panic disorders, even if they have exposure to lead levels generally considered safe, according to a report in the December issue of Archives of General Psychiatry,

Low-level lead exposure may disrupt brain processes, such as those involving the neurotransmitters catecholamine and serotonin, that are associated with depression and panic disorders, the authors note. Exposure to lead in individuals predisposed to these conditions could trigger their development, make them more severe or reduce response to treatment.

"These findings suggest that lead neurotoxicity may contribute to adverse mental health outcomes, even at levels generally considered to pose low or no risk," they conclude

My blood lead is 0.9 µmol and the accepted 'normal' is 0.0 to 0.45 µmol - double the maximum! I'm taking action. I suspect it's the lead oxide dust that forms in my melting pot as well as lead fumes since I run my pot hot. Ventilation will be introduced!

[MtGun44]

No doubt your doc is trying to help you, but IMO scaring someone by telling them that
9 is "high lead levels" is not helpful and is factually incorrect if the point is whether there
are serious health risks. Certainly if you were not knowingly in contact with lead and
had a level of 9, it would be good to understand what is causing it so that it won't
inadvertantly go higher. In that sense, he is good to raise the question, no doubt.
How he framed the information is key, and from what I remember of your first post
it sounds like he overdid it a good bit. It is clear that he is trying to keep you safe.

It seems like lots of folks want to make this hobby out as some sort of a dangerous
thing, and base all their comments on guesses, stories they heard or whatever. Look
up the vapor pressure of lead at different temperatures. IIRC it is 10^-7 torr at 850F.

You guys do what you want, the fact is that the vapor pressure of lead at anything
remotely near the hottest you will make it with a casting pot is about one tenmillionth of
1 mm of mercury. Normal air pressure is 760 mm of mercury, so the vapor pressure of
lead is just barely measurable with very high precision instrumentation. I suspect that
the arsenic or antimony might be a bigger issue than airborne lead vapor. Vapor and
dust are not the same thing.

Lead DUST in the air and on your hands to your mouth is THE ISSUE unless you are shooting
on an indoor range. Normal casting with any kind of reasonable ventilation, and washing
after working with lead and not eating, drinking or smoking with contaminated hands will
keep you safe.

You can pretend that 0.000001 is the safe limit or what ever number you like, but the
facts are that if you stay below 40 you will be healthy - unless your tinfoil hat starts constricting
the blood flow.

This is all researchable, just don't believe the envirowhackos that are selling global warming
and solar and electric cars and we will all die if anyone shoots a deer with a lead boolit or
melts some wheelweights. They are liars with an agenda.

Not long ago all cars were putting out lead compounds in vapor and dust form from the tailpipes
all the time. Somehow we all survived.

Bill

[303Guy]

It wasn't my doctor who said anything. I simply got the results from the nurse and all that was said that 'normal was 0 to 0.45 and mine was 0.9. I looked up on the net and found the bits I quoted above. What is being said is that that risk of neurological problems is is eight times higher with young adults having elevated lead levels. The study in question didn't cover older folks. The point is that we do need to take blood lead seriously and take precautions. It's true that we were dosed with lead from exhaust pipes when young. My kids got it too! I have no idea how µmol converts to milligrams per decilitre so I have no way of comparing my levels with those being spoken of in the thread.

[Lively Boy]

I found this interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

[C.F.Plinker]

I have no idea how µmol converts to milligrams per decilitre so I have way of comparing my levels with those being spoken of in the thread.

I found this which may be helpfull for you.
To convert micromoles per liter of lead into micrograms per deciliter, multiply by 20.712.

With this formula your .9 micromoles per liter would be about 18.6 micrograms per deciliter.

[357maximum]

Do you know what a medical student that finishes last in his/her class is called?


Yep..you got it...DOCTOR




I have had mine tested several times( my wife is a nurse). She recieves the same mind numbing blather that doctors do and it brainwashes some of the medical professionals to the point of stupidity.


BTW...I am not a sterile caster, I do use a fan to move good air into my area though....I am also very very careful with the case tumbler media.

My lead level has never been higher than 3


YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT NOTHING. Relax, go make some boolits and stop eating the paint off the window sill.

[303Guy]

Thanks C.F.Plinker.

Interesting link. Here's some of what they say;

In adults, symptoms can occur at levels above 40 μg/dL, but are more likely to occur only above 50–60 μg/dL.[14]

and

Signs of chronic exposure include loss of short-term memory or concentration, depression, nausea, abdominal pain, loss of coordination, and numbness and tingling in the extremities.[21]

The scary thing is I have tingling in my right finger tips! I doubt it's caused by lead poisoning though. I have a 'pinched nerve' in my neck.

Elevated blood pressure is one of the symptoms too but my blood pressure is 110/70 which is what a teenager would expect to have and for me that was quite a while back - I'm 59. However, what scares me is the fact that I have been careless with lead dust. But now I'm wiser and I will be a whole lot more careful in future.