250+ grain in 45acp

[newton]

I loaded up a dummy round last night to get the boolit seating and crimp set. It took a little, but I think I got it down. The throats are tight so the boolit has to set in the case a ways. I am not worried about case fill because I am looking for a light load anyways. The boolit is crimped just above the crimp groove. You can see where the sizing die reduces the boolit and I am crimping the case mouth right on the edge of that.

I am assuming that its a taper crimp. Not sure why it would be a roll crimp. I tested it and it fit fine in the cylinder and actually took just a wee bit of pressure to get all the way in because the front of the boolit was not wanting to go into the throats. I am assuming that the case is still being headspaced from the case mouth. I will check the dimensions with a mic to see if the crimp is too much. I knew that they were spaced that way, but did not think about the crimp affecting it.

To me its worth the effort. I like the idea of being able to have one mold for both. I have no use for stout acp loads, they will just be used for me to get used to the pistol and for fun. If I want something hot I'll just shoot the colt cylinder. I imagine in the long run I will get another mold, but for now this gets me going and having some fun.

I do think I will start low on the charge though. Right at 5 if not a tad lower. But I think 5 will do me good from what I am reading.

[Char-Gar]

Handloading is no place for assumptions. If your die is not marked TC or Taper Crimp, it is a roll crimp die. You want to KNOW if the case is still headspacing on the case mouth and not assume so.

You are free to do as you wish, but assumptions in handloading can get gun's destroyed and people badly injured. When you fire a round, you are turning loose many thousands of pounds of pressure contained only in a little brass bottle in your hands and close to your face and head.

I am a little troubled, that you are going into areas of handloading not covered or tested in reliable sources, with so little understanding of what you are doing and throwing is some assumptions for good measure.

You only reason for doing this is "you like the idea of being able to have one mold for both". That does not mean it is a good idea. It certainly is not a good idea for folks who really don't know what they are doing.

Again...I am not trying to be harsh..just trying to get your attention. That's it...I am done.

[newton]

Attention has been gotten. No worries here. A guy has to start somewhere though. I am not just halfheartedly banging out some ammo though. If I have never heard of anyone using a heavy boolit, and had multiple people telling me its not a wise thing to do, rest assured I would not be doing it.

I try to do my best with finding out as much info as I can before proceeding. But if I stand around and wait for information, much less experience, to hit me in the head before I do anything then I am going to grow to be an old man with nothing but thoughts running through my mind. Eventually a guy has to put his hand to the grindstone even if there is a chance he will get a finger cut off.

I really appreciate all the help and advise I get here. In fact, its advice of this nature I like even better. I would rather have 'potential' harsh words spoken to me than a slap on the back and a 'go gettum' approach.

Handloading was born from assumptions. Educated, but still assumption till tests are done. If I found just one, just one person who said they tried the 255 grain boolit and it ruined their gun then it would be enough for me to not do it. Is it ideal? Probably not for the cartridge. But then that is all subjective.

I have never pretended to be an expert at this. I am new and learning each and every day. I thought that I had the case capacity and pressure thing the right way, turns out I did not. I am grateful for the willingness of people to let me know that I had my thinking cap on backward for a moment.

Now the taper versus roll crimp issue is what I would call a pretty good assumption. If a specific cartridge is made to work a specific way then why would a company make a die set that did not meet the specifications for that cartridge if it were unsafe? To me that would be kind of like a ammo manufacture loading +P cartridges and then not indicating that they had done so.

The instructions that come with the die set are given for putting a crimp on the cartridge. If it were a crimp that would in some way, shape, or form cause an unsafe round then would there not be some type of warning? If not just for their sake of limiting liability, kind of like the warning on guns that tells you to read the instructions.

But that's me. Again, thank you for the heads up and it is something that I will definitely check on. One man's good idea is anther's nightmare and vise versa.

[newton]

Just called Lee. The seating die does in fact perform a taper crimp to the bullet. Hope this helps someone else out that comes along wondering if it does or not. I bought their 3 die set as people that had them all stated the 'factory crimp' die is nice for some instances, but not so much needed for the 45acp set.

So now I have a pretty good idea that I have the correct crimp. I have found some more info on heavy boolits that generally right around this weight about 5 grains of Unique is the load most people go with. Some have stated they go up to the 6 grain mark, but recoil is stout(of course a lot of this is done with 1911's) and there is not any accuracy gain from doing so.

I am going to start with around 4.6 grains. If it turns out to be the little plinking load I am looking for then I'll stop there. Not so much looking for accuracy or knock down power. Just something to get me used to the revolver without constantly reloading my colt cases over and over, and light recoil to boot.

[newton]

Well I just shot off 12 rounds. I will do more testing but I am happy and suprised/interested at the same time. Before actually loading I did a few more dummy rounds to make sure everything was good. I set the die to do the lightest crimp yet still have the pressure to hold the boolit still while pushing down on it with my hand.

You really cannot see the crimp at all. I'll measure next time I load some rounds to get a OAL. The rounds chamber fine, but I think I will set them a tad deeper. They do catch a little against the throats.

The test I did was between small and large primer cases. I'll post pictures tomorrow, but there was a world of difference between the two with the small primer being the clear winner. I did not change anything durring loading. The load is ~4.5 unique. I used lee dippers. Accuracy is good enough for what I'm looking for. I really need a chrony to see where I'm at with this, although it seems just right.

[tacklebury]

I use 6.5 gr. Unique with a 200 gr. RNFP in the acp with mine for plinking and targets. Very accurate and just enough energy to cycle the slide if I use it in my Witness Match. I use 9 gr. with a 255 gr. RNFP in the .45 Colt and if I'm shooting 240 jacketed I use 10 gr. Unique with a Sierra 240 gr. sportsmaster. All work well. My only other loads are for a 300 gr. XTP Magnum and 19 to 21 gr. H110 in the .45 Colt.

[newton]

I am willing to bet this would not be a good combo for a 1911. But I could be wrong. I was focusing more on the target than recoil, but it was very mild. I would be curious if it would be enough to function correctly, although you could always put a smaller spring in.

But that is not even close to my intentions. I did notice that there was a whole lot less room for powder than I would have thought. I did not try, and probably won't, but the 6+ grains I was first thinking probably would not fit without some compression. But I did not try.

No pressure signs whatsoever. I had a good rest, but not total rest. I still have a long way to go with getting used to revolver shooting. But this way I am going to be able to do it for a lot less than even the colt rounds. At 4.5 grains I can get 1500 rounds from a pound of powder.

I imagine that in the future I will get a different mold to play with but funds have dried up at the moment and this keeps me shooting for a while.

[newton]

Here is the picture I took. I might get out again and shoot another 6 and 6 tonight. In all fairness, which I did not think about at the time, the first 6 rounds of the large primer were the first ones to be shot out of that cylinder. So another test is in order here. With all the information I can find from people who shoot heavy boolits like this in acp, they should be going right between 650 and 700 fps. I think that would make a nice little rabbit pistol round.

The group on the right is the large primer, the one on the right is small primer. I did not change anything between them. And while grip, tension, etc can change from shot to shot, there is a significant difference between the two.

[35remington]

One group does not make a satisfactory conclusion. Shoot 100 rounds of each type and report back. Try to take human error and wobble out of the equation. If you're not using a scope or a machine rest, conclusions derived from 12 shots are about as statistically invalid as anything can possibly be.

If one primer type made a serious difference in accuracy.....you can bet they'd be already doing it for all 45 ACP ammo everywhere.

[newton]

One group does not make a satisfactory conclusion. Shoot 100 rounds of each type and report back. Try to take human error and wobble out of the equation. If you're not using a scope or a machine rest, conclusions derived from 12 shots are about as statistically invalid as anything can possibly be.

If one primer type made a serious difference in accuracy.....you can bet they'd be already doing it for all 45 ACP ammo everywhere.

Oh I agree. But I am not the first one to come to this conclusion. I am going to say that there is also a big difference between j-bullets and cast. Also, within the cast world there are a lot of different types of alloys. One alloy might not work as good as another.

It might be that its just my alloy that it works good with. I am for sure going to do some testing, but the fact that they shoot great is enough for me to be happy. Because the simple fact is everyone like large primer in the 45acp for some reason and that means I can pick up the once fired small primer cases for penny's on the dollar.

I am using a rest, but not one that takes my human error all the way out. I just found it interesting and wanted to share. I am going to run some more through, but I doubt if I am going to run 100 through of each for right now. I am not out to see if I can shrink my groups or prove one case is capable of having a distinct advantage over another.

I just wanted to let it be known that my boolits I use for my colt rounds work just fine as a plinking round for my acp cylinder and that they work really well in the small primer cases. That is the extent of my sharing for now. I need to get a whole lot more under my belt before I go being a good tester.

[Groo]

Groo here
Just go to your handy older Speer manual and look up the 45acp section..
You will find data for 260gr jackets, this will give you a starting point...

[Good Cheer]

Well, the 45ACP is a rimless Schofield. Perhaps Triple 7 would make a good load.

[scattershot]

Well, the 45ACP is a rimless Schofield. Perhaps Triple 7 would make a good load.

Actually, it isn't. The Schofield has a case length of 1.1 "' while the ACP length is .898. Good point about the .777, though. There may be some useful data to be found in .45 Auto Rim, though.

[Good Cheer]

There is; broke out the faded Lyman's in working up for this one set at the shortest possible with the gas check plug.

[ole 5 hole group]

They all work - sometimes.

[scattershot]

Holy cow! How are you loading that 265 grain behemoth?

[ole 5 hole group]

I use the cartridge in my 1911. I use VV N350 for the 265 grain Beartooth with the WLP primer with an OAL of 1.220 and taper crimped at 0.469. It feeds well and I’ve never had a problem with the bullet. I use Starline Super cases when I load to +P velocities.

Buffalo Bore advertises their load as a +p running at 950fps and they use Starline +P cases, not the Super cases. I find it to run about 10fps faster in my Baer 1911 and the Handloader magazine a couple months ago had it running 975fps from a 5” Remington 1911 R-1 enhanced.

[x101airborne]

While I applaud anyone thinking "outside the box" a bit, I did this also some time back. I had DISMAL results form the entire project and eventually gave it up. The bases of the boolits were swaged down to a tapered profile from being shoved into the thicker part of the case causing extreme leading. Those that did not swage down caused a bulge in the side of the case and jammed. They were fairly accurate, but when I tried them out on animals, they performed horrifically. They had absolutely NO shock value what so ever. They did penetrate ok, but even a raccoon I encountered had to be shot 6 times in the chest before he gave up the tree. Hogs had to be followed up with a shotgun, wich I detest for obvious reasons. The drop on the round precluded any distance shooting. Now for knocking over steel or bowling pins at known distances, great application. For hunting or self defence, I would consider something else. I cannot stress enough how lousy this worked for me and my needs.

[tek4260]

Here is a factory along with a 255 Lee, and a Keith from Lyman and RCBS. The heavies shot extremely well from my Springfield.

I used these Mihec HP's for a deer last season at 70 yards. I have to look up what they way, but I think it is in the 270-280gr range

[scattershot]

Anyone carre to share some loads for these heavies?