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Thread: Lube cookie!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master RMulhern's Avatar
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    Lube cookie!

    Any of you guys HAVE A CLUE....as to the function of a lube cookie??

    Old heads....stay quiet!!
    "The South died with Stonewall Jackson!"

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Is this a trick question?

  3. #3
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    It is something to dip in your glass of milk!
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    Is that for Constipation ???
    You Know You Might Be Facing your DOOM , if all you get is a click, Instead of a BOOM !

    If God had wanted us to have Plastic gun stocks he would have planted plastic Trees !

  5. #5
    Longwood
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    My dog got a can of bacon grease once, and left what looked like a big cookie on my patio.

  6. #6
    Longwood
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    If he had said green cookie,,,

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy catkiller45's Avatar
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    I know I am far from being a bondafied expert like most of you guys are..Here is what I have found so far as how good a grease cookie really is..My cookie was 3/16 inch thick....I found it to be totaly worthless...I had only 68 grains of 2F 1 .022 veg wad over powder then the cookie another .025 milk cartoon wad and then the bullet...There was very little lube at the end of the barrel,30 inch...I wiped between shot and had to use 2 wet patch to get the fouling out,befor the next shot...I think I have to agree with Matthew's book where he said the over powder wad will just push the lube out of the barrel....
    So next time I am going with a piece of wax paper.....The lube is SPG,the same I use on the grease grooved bullets.....So is it a waste of time? I have no fracking idea.....You tell me
    keep on rolling along.no matter what happens just keep rolling

  8. #8
    Banned bigted's Avatar
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    provide a bit of lube to the barrel and keep the fouling soft.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master nanuk's Avatar
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    I'm not sure you can reverse engineer this to find out exactly the mechanics involved

    BUT my GUESS is it lays a layer of lube down on the bore, prior to the fouling crud being laid down, thereby doing two things
    1) keeping fouling OFF the bore
    2) adding the needed moisture BEHIND the lube to keep it soft enough for easy removal
    EX/ grease up a steel plate, then pour sand on it, then wipe off the sand, Next, mix sand and grease, and grease it up with the mix, then wipe it off.... See which is better

    I think of it as "Barrier Method of Protection"

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy catkiller45's Avatar
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    Tried a few today and put a wax paper disc. over the powder
    and then the cookie,etc

    The cookie worked a lot better this way..Fouling was very soft
    a dry patch could be pused through with ease....
    keep on rolling along.no matter what happens just keep rolling

  11. #11
    Longwood
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    The way I see it is the lube is back where it will not only help protect the bullet base but also be smeared onto the barrel instead of the lead base of an exposed bullet being spray welded onto the barrel by the hot gas and pressure..
    It also acts like a seal between the bullet and the barrel.
    Instead of riding along in the groove, and being spun off of the bullet where it will only lube flying insects, more lube is deposited. then stays where, it does some good.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy catkiller45's Avatar
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    One thing I forgot to add...The lube cookie also stoped the blow back I was getting with the bore sized patched bullets I have been using..So I guess that a plus as well...
    keep on rolling along.no matter what happens just keep rolling

  13. #13
    Boolit Master RMulhern's Avatar
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    Lube and a clue!

    Now to the crux of why I started this post! From time to time I've read here and on other similar related forums that some dude has made a post declaring "I'm shooting paper patch without a lube cookie and since I'm wiping after each shot I don't need a lube cookie!" Under this scenario it would be logical to thereby assume that the thought process of the shooter would be that the only function of a lube cookie would be for the deposition of lube onto the walls of the bore for maintenance of soft fouling! IMO I think that is a false impression! Over the past few years I have shot thousands of PP bullets! Not possibly as many as others whom visit this forum who have been doing this much longer than I have but without a doubt I have fired enough downrange to make somewhat of a broad statement as to the functionality of what a lube cookie will do. Since I have never seen a high speed X-Ray photo of the interior of a BPCR bore at ignition, nor has anyone else seen this I would gather, based upon what could be logically surmised....it is my belief that the lube cookie does more than just deposit a layer of grease onto the walls of the bore; rather...since the gases expand radially within a rifle's chamber it would be logical to surmise that the lube cookie also helps to prevent the hot gas from blowing by the over powder wad helping to prevent the problem of leading! I can also state that in my case...I have always gotten better accuracy when using a rather thick lube cookie than when I didn't use one! YMMV!!
    "The South died with Stonewall Jackson!"

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Rick, I agree. I'm pretty darn sure that they help a lot with gas cutting. Particularly if you are shooting out of a chamber cut for grease groove bullets. I've only got a couple of years of playing with these things, but I can say that in all of my rifles with GG chambers I get serious gas cutting with a single wad and pretty good accuracy with a lube cookie. In my .45-70 with DanT's chamber I can shoot single wads or lube cookies.

    Chris.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    If your having gas cutting then your wads are not doing their Job. I have recovered many of my PP bullets shot at 1000 and out to 1 mile no fining of the bullet or signs of Gas cutting, no leading either.
    Then again I use more then one wad, and have always done so.

    In my hunting loads I use a rather thick grease cookie and it does put a considerable amout of lube in the barrel after a couple of shots you can not see the rifling, yet no issues just thick lube from front to back, this in my Shiloh 45-110 business Rifle. This has been tested in temps from the 80's to -6 deg. And has killed buffalo-deer.

    I think grease cookies have their place thats a given, I see no need for them in a target rifle match, thats my opinion, nothing more.

    There is a current world record Paper Patch group fired at 200 yards in a match setting, it is 1.336 inches, anyone is welcome to come to Raton and fire a smaller group with Grease cookie loads and prove my opinion wrong.

    consistant loading methods, Top quality casting of bullets and the abilty to hold the rifle, and Judge wind conditions, will in all cases outweigh the the rest and win.

    Period.

    Develop a good load, test it, from 200 to 1000 yards, then learn what conditions do to it.

    ie: x amount of windage for 8 mph wind at 11, 10, or 9, 7, then 11, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Learn all that,

    Well hell you will win most of the time.

    KW
    The Lunger
    Founder-President H'Rass
    Historical Rifle Accuracy Seeking Shooters

  16. #16
    Longwood
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    I saw a mention of a substance used back when that is for hives but is sort of a starter for them if I understood it correctly.
    Supposedly one of the Shooting Pro's" of old, recommended or used it.
    Do any of you know more about it and know of a source?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    I have looked to many bullets over the years looking at the effects of what different wads do and dont do and I been smeared by some some called bullet guru's about my findings so I pretty much quit telling about my findings. It's best for you to see for your self what goes on with this stuff.
    But I will say one thing when shooting a PP bullet.
    A lube wad definitely helps seal the bore and prevents gas cuts.
    Shooting a PP bullet with out the lube wad especially using bullets with 1/16 T/L or 1/20 with a small percentage of antimony in the alloy and using no lube wad with a bullet patched under bore diameter the gas will get past the base of the bullet and at times cut just the patch but more then not will cut the bullet. Some cuts are very small like a mouse was nibbling at the very base to a full length wash out.
    When the bullet is hard like 1/16 or even 1/18 especially # 2 Lyman and patched to under bore diameter, the bullet will not get the expansion to help seal the bore. I find that a bullet has more nose setback then the base gets pushed forward and if a wad that is hard and smaller then what the throat diameter is will let the gas get past the hard fiber or card wad with out the lube wad helping to seal the bore.
    Using a soft cork wad under a pp bullet I never found a PP bullet with any sign of gas cuts.
    Using a lube wad does two things for me, especially shot in a bottle neck case like the .44-2 5/8 (.44-90 bn) keeps the ES and SD down and prevents case stretch or separation.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Kurt,

    I would expect your findings where you got gas cutting with thin or no wad at all, I also expect why I have found about a dozen bullets that skided it at 1000 yards and almost as many at 1 mile with no gas cutting is the fact I use that mulit-wad stack of mine. Which does have a .091 Cork wad in that stack.

    I also think the closer to bore your bullet is and using thin paper which, in theory, would require less bump up would be all good things to help prevent Gas cutting on bullets.

    Kenny W

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Kenny.

    I used several different thickness of wads. cards cut from OJ and milk cartons, serial boxes and 1/16" fiber gaskets and with no lube between them using flat base bullets patched at bore or .001 under using hard 1/16 some had gas cuts, not all , some.
    The cup and dish based bullets had none even with just a .023" thick wad between the bullet and powder..
    I shot a bunch of the BACO .444 diameter money bullets and .432" money bullets using alloy from 1/20 T/L to 1/16 T/L and some #2 Lyman to see how the noses stand and shot then with different wad stacks and the hard 1/16 and the #2 with just a 1/16" fiber some had cuts...not all but some.
    None of the .446 cup based swaged @ 1/16 bullets had cuts just the hard flat based bullets patched at bore or .001 under had burned patches and gas cuts.
    I did this just to see how the nose stood on my new MB moulds and not to check for gas cuts.
    I can post a few photo's if you want to see them.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy catkiller45's Avatar
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    Lead Pot---I would like to see the picture so I know what to look for as far as gas cutting?

    Are you getting this with groove diameter bullets as well or just with the bore diameter slugs?
    keep on rolling along.no matter what happens just keep rolling

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check