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Thread: 45-70 & Black Powder...

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


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    45-70 & Black Powder...

    I just went through all the indexes for the 27 years of Handloader that I have…

    I am looking for black powder loads for the 45-70…

    Can’t seem to find any articles, although I would bet money I saw one in Handloader of recent years concerning the 45-70 and black powder…

    Checked Pet Loads by K.Waters and nothing much to speak about…

    Searched this forum and got hit and miss info, but no hard loading data…

    Any place where a guy can get a source of black powder loads for the 45-70…

    Or an article that might list a dozen or so loads with various boolit weights…

    Thanks...BCB

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Any place where a guy can get a source of black powder loads for the 45-70…
    http://www.goexpowder.com/images/Loa...idge-Rifle.pdf

    http://www.wahsatchdesperadoes.com/I...CR_Loading.pdf ... complete loading data at the end of the article
    Regards
    John

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Most of the BP loads are going to be versions of "fill the case, seat the bullet." The approach that has worked well for me is as follows:

    1. I'm assuming you're loading paper patch bullets. If you're wrapping them bore diameter you only want .100"-.125" in the case. If you're wrapping to groove diameter, figure out how deep to seat them so they're about .020" from the rifling.

    2. Drop tube your powder of choice (swiss 1.5f is a top choice, goex 2f is working ok for me, too) until it is just to the depth your bullet will need to sit. Pour it onto a scale and record the weight.

    3. Add a thin fiber wad on top of the powder and use a compression plug to compress to the depth you need for the bullet.

    4. Seat the bullet to the depth you determined in step 1. Make 10 of these, measuring powder by weight.

    5. Add 2gr to the previous load and do 10 more. Then add 2 more grains and do 10 more. The maybe add 2 more grains and do 10 more. When you do these loads, leave the compression die the same so as you add powder, you also increase compression.


    Shoot these for groups cleaning really thoroughly between. As you add compression, there will be a point where the fowling decreases and the report changes from a softer "whoomh" like a muzzleloader to a sharper "crack" like a modern rifle. That is a good thing.

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
    Seth Hawkins's Avatar
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    In the address bar of your browser, type http://www.google.com
    Then, in the search bar on that page, type 45-70 bp loads

    That should get you started. The 45-70 probably has more published BP load data than all other BP cartridges combined. You just gotta look for it.


    Google. It's a wonderful thing.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Another book not to be missed is

    http://www.4570book.info/

    Quite a bit of information on how to replicate the original loadings.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=82532

    http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/shooterstext.html

    and there are a lot more if you look.
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

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  6. #6
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    You put the best load data in the title of your thread. It's the same thing since the cartridge first began.
    45 caliber 70 grs of black powder.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
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    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    Thanks for the info…

    I have been doing a bit of copy/pasting as I read some of the information…

    Actually, this project is not mine, but a friend’s who purchased an Encore in 45-70 cartridge…

    Of the somewhere between 55 and 60 (changes as some gets used and new gets purchased) canisters of powder that I have, not a single one of them is Black Powder—just never got into it at all…

    But my buddy has been a muzzle loader shooter for some time and he wants to do the 45-70 with Black Powder also…

    Don’t completely understand it, but I ain’t a Black Powder guy!...

    I must admit that from what I have read, it might not be an easy task with just “ordinary” cast boolit stuff at his access. I.E. a Lee mold, a Lee sizer, and a bottle of Alox. I don’t even know if Alox can be used with Black Powder propelled boolits…

    So, I will keep doing some Google searching and read some other posts here and there and attempt to give him the info…

    But, I don’t think I really want to be part of the reloading process for his 45-70 as I have no understanding of Black Powder…

    He’ll be on his own there…

    Thanks for the help/info so far…

    BCB

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Lead Fred's Avatar
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    Alox is petrolium based, bad mojo to mix with holy black.

    We use an all natural bee's wax/lard/cornola oil lube.

    Make sure you build a powder drop, weigh you black via volume, not weight.

    I have a brand new LEE 500gr mold Ive never used. My Lyman (405RN) and Ranch Dog FN are much better molds than any of the Lee's Ive seen.

    I've got a hollow based 45/70 mold inbound, wondering how to fill the base with powder as to not have a air gap.
    I have sworn on the altar of GOD eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    The stuff in liquid alox really makes a goopy tar when combined with blackpowder residue.
    There are alox lubes available that do work fair with bp.
    Best bet is just to buy one of the well known blackpowder lubes, and don't use much harder than 20-1 to cast them.
    Always weigh your charges, so you know how much powder you actually have in there. A couple of grains variation from charge to charge can really enlarge group size.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Here - this article should bring you up to speed: Black Powder Cartridge Rifles
    A great pan lube is 1 pound beeswax, 1/2 pound lanolin and 1/2 pound canola oil by weight.
    Weighing every charge is not necessary - black powder is not like smokeless, a few tenths of a grain difference will have no effect on the group - you can use your standard powder measure. Don't believe the "It's Dangerous" crowd - do a search here and you will learn the truth.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check