Attempt to make a Taper Crimper on my new Lathe

[DoctorBill]

After pharting around with Life, obtaining Lathe Parts, A Relative visiting,
teaching Chemistry, having back problems and this and that.....

I am back to working on the Taper Crimping Tool.

Using the "Mild Hot Rolled Rod" I cut down the diameter to 0.875" and
that portion is ready for threading (when I get my Quadrant Gears Bushing
from Walter Meier - a JET Dealer.......May 14th !).

I am now drilling out (0.500") the wider portion to allow the 45-70 Cartridge to enter
the Taper Crimper Tool to a depth of 1.4" before getting to the taper portion.

.

I am waiting for Gary 'the Machinist' to have a look at my Lathe.

I think the Leadscrew turns kinda hard compared to all the other things in the Headstock.

Don't understand why the Leadscrew and the gears in the transmission would turn hard when
the selection lever is down (not engaged).

Wondering if something in the Apron is too tight....everything is well oiled !

BTW - I am going to acid etch 1, 2 and 3 into the Lathe Chuck to number the jaws so that
I can put anything back into the Chuck exactly like it was when I took it out. Nitric Acid.
Cut out the number from paper towel paper, lay it out on the Chuck metal and just wet the paper
with the acid. Won't take long and will look good. That last part is important....

I scratched a mark on both ends of the Taper Crimper to align that with the number one Chuck Jaw.

I'm having fun....this is a blast ! The Lathe is less and less intimidating to me of late.

Gary had one of these (15th Ed) - ordered this one from e-bay.
I personally didn't want all the "Modern" CNC stuff in the new ones - old fashioned, I guess....



DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Almost there !

Turned the outside. Hot Rolled "Mild" Steel.

Drilled the inside. 0.500" bottom - 29/64ths top.

Now to Taper the inside top end
and
Thread the outside (when I get my bushing for the Quadrant Gears).


FOUR photos cut and pasted together with different views using PHOTOSHOP.

This Lathe Business is fun and interesting but a back zapper !

DoctorBill

[Chicken Thief]

May i suggest something?

Make a "standard" 7/8"-14 threaded bushing that takes incerts and secure them with a set screw.
That way making a new incerts is way less work and experiments are bur a breeze.

[DoctorBill]

Chicken Thief -

A most interesting idea !

Perhaps I will try it sometime.

Interesting - the ideas people come up with....

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

I am almost finished with the Taper Crimper Tool....

Here I am very, very carefully boring the Taper.

The angle is less than one degree. I tried using a dial indicator
while traversing the Compound to get an idea of where to set it.


I ground a "Tool" from 1/4" HSS to look like things I saw on the
Internet. Long Story Short - it did work !
It is not a pretty sight, however....


Here it is without threads.
I had to shorten it in order to keep the Internal Boring Tool as short as feasible.

Monday I am supposed to get a JET Bushing from
Walter Meier. I hope it fits my ENCO machine.


DoctorBill

[Buckshot]

..............DoctorBill, in all that junk I sent you were some drill blanks. These make outstanding boring bars themselves. It's pretty pbvious that the front clearance is pretty much already there. All it takes to use one as a form tool is light grinding on the cutting edge side, to allow the created edge to cut.



This one has more grinding then required, had it been used in a larger hole. This is a form tool used for making a swage die. The drawing obviously is not to scale as it shows the cavity MUCH larger then the tool, but it's like that for clearities sake. Rigidity requires metal, and the more metal there is in cross section, the better off you are. It follows that a round boring bar in a round hole is going to give you that.



LEFT: This one was ground to create a flat bottomed hole. RIGHT: This is a home made boring bar, and uses a drill blank as a bit. I believe I also sent along a bunch of long extension bits. You can cut the shanks off to use as cutting bits, small boring bars, and form tools.



Here's that home made boring bar again. In this instance a drill bit shank has been ground to cut threads and is sticking out the opposite side of the bar. Since this turret head is only spaced off the faceplate a 1/4", I didn't want to have to deal with disengageing the half nuts while watching a dial indicator. Instead the spindle turns in reverse with the tool feeding out.



You can make up these square holders for the drill shank boring bars. This one is just a piece of keystock. This one was split with a hacksaw but a slitting saw makes a neater cut. Regardless, it works. The drill blanks and drill bit shanks make great grooveing tools for snap rings, E clips and O rings.



My facing tool is a 1/4" drill blank in once of those square blocks. The end is ground with backrake but no siderake. It has (as you can see) been ground with a 1/8" radius. Done this way it will work with the spindle running in either direction and gives a very nice finish.

.............Buckshot

[DoctorBill]

BuckShot -

I thought of using the round drill blanks, but not having much knowledge
of grinding bits, at this stage, I opted for bits I had seen on the Internet.

Grinding bits looks to be an art by itself...and I have a lot to learn.

I wanted to make a D-Bit, but my friend Gary said that for Steel, I would want
a small cutting surface.

A large cutting surface, like a D-Bit, would chatter and maybe grab the work.

Aluminum is OK, but not hard stuff.

In any case, I went REALLY slow and cut at most about 0.002" per run.
I was very worried that the bit would grab the work inside and break something really violently.
Didn't happen, but I kept visualizing what could happen.
I'm still scared of this thing !

I almost overshot, Too !

I have to remember that for every thousand'ths I cut, I get two thousand'ths
off the diameter of any rod I am working on - Inside or outside !

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

After a long odyssey of learning the Gears on my ENCO Lathe and practice
threading Aluminum Rod, I am finally ready to thread my Taper Crimping Tool -
then comes some reloading !

Here is a 7/8" x 14 TPI Aluminum Rod next to what I compared it to.
It fits the LEE Nut and into my LEE Presses just fine.


Except now, after deburring my Leadscrew, the Carriage seems to bind up.

Looks like I will have to disassemble it to see what gives.
Probably has metal chips in the works, but we'll see.

Lathes must be like women - needing constant attention and fussing with !

DoctorBill

[HollowPoint]

Hi Dr. B:

I've been following your ordeal with this new lathe of yours on the yahoo forum as well as on this website.

It grieves me to hear that you seem to be encountering one obstacle after another. I too, experienced a few problems with my Grizzly G4000 but, most of my problems were due to my lack of experience with this particular lathe.

I've had my lathe long enough that eventually I'll have to start making replacement parts to take the place of worn-out parts. Other than the part I mentioned in one of my previous posts, that has yet to happen though.

If or when I do have to start making my own parts for this lathe, the frustrating thing will be that alot of those replacement parts have to be turned. (turned on a metal lathe) It's hard to make replacement parts for my metal lathe if my metal lathe is not running due to worn parts that need replacing.

I made my first replacement part a couple of months ago with my CNC hobby mill. So far it's been working like a champ. Almost like I knew what I was doing.

My initial attempts at threading turned out like absolute KaKa. The guys over on the yahoo 9x19 lathe forum were real life savers. With their help I was able to re-barrel my old Enfield rifle.

It turned out that I was using the correct gears but, I had them in the wrong positions. I was inadvertently cutting metric threads rather than the thread pitch I should have been cutting.

It's a good thing I was using practice materials before I cut into my hundred-dollar barrel blank.

I'm glad to see that you're moving forward and slowly traversing that learning curve associated with these bench-top lathes. I wish you all the best with your future projects.

HollowPoint

[DoctorBill]

"It grieves me to hear that you seem to be encountering one obstacle after another."

Don't be too worried.
I put all my problems on one forum or another so that others who have the same problems
can learn from my mistakes, problems and fixes - for what it is worth to anyone.

BTW - I took my Apron-Carriage apart today (5/21), lubed it and reassembled it.
Now it works like "Nominal"....the way it is supposed to.
Don't know what was wrong, but now it's right.
Onward.

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Well...I'll be damned !

I actually did it !



I finished the Taper Crimper Tool without screwing it up !

I almost did, though. The threads are rather crude looking.

Lost track of the turns on the Carriage Wheel when I got going too fast.

Whew !

It fits in my LEE and RCBS Presses.

OK - I shot off 40 rounds of 45-70 Last week, so now I can test this
Tool on some new Paper Patch reloads and my home brew PP bullets.

I love my H&R 1873 Springfield Trapdoor 45-70 Reproduction !

Nice shooting rifle.

Just have to figure out how to secure the Creedmore Rear Sight better
that I have it.

I guess that brings this thread to a conclusion.

No use posting anything about other projects....since I am now an expert. lol

DoctorBill

PS - My Carriage is back to making the grinding sound.
I believe it to be the Rack - It must move. Readjust and lock it down.
See if that stops it.

[smokeywolf]

DoctorBill,

If that is your first go at single-pointing a thread, your doing better than most machinists who are on their 6th or 7th try. A wire brush and/or ScotchBrite pad will smooth your thread surfaces out a little.
Also, I recall an entry regarding procuring tooling for your lathe. The tooling is often more critical than the machine (lathe, mill, drill press) itself. Buy the best quality you can afford. Watch fleaBay for solid carbide boring bars. Criterion boring bars are also worth having. PTD "Precision Twist Drill" or Chicago LaTrobe are pretty good drills. Your boring tool (form cutter) that you ground for your mold was a good first effort. I think Buckshot suggested grinding the drill blank he sent you. He's right on track! Drill and reamer blanks are extremely handy for grinding into boring bars, form tools, and punches for punching out shim stock or any material that might be used for making say, gas checks. I use them sometimes just to clamp an indicator on.

Regards,

smokeywolf

[R.M.]

Bill, I've been following this from the start, and I applaud you for your success on your first project.
Being in the trade for over 40 years, I think I'm qualified to give a bit of advise.
When turning a piece like that, start with about twice the material than you need. Hang the whole part out of the chuck, and leave it there during all the operations. You'll get better concentrically, with less effort.
To clean up the threads a bit, take a triangular file, and roll over the crest of the threads. It won't affect the fit of the threads if everything is cut right.
Again, well done.

[HollowPoint]

Well done Dr. Bill:

You are an inspiration to many. You've now earned your Doctorate
in 9x19 metal-latheology.

HollowPoint

[DoctorBill]

"When turning a piece like that, start with about twice the material than you need.
Hang the whole part out of the chuck, and leave it there during all the operations.
You'll get better concentrically, with less effort."

Oh yes !

That was a lesson well learned !

All the while I was doing the threading, I was wishing that I had cut the
piece off to size AFTERWARD !

Live and learn as my machinist friend Gary says.

One seems to learn by making misteaks....

Gary has told me a lot of things which I just didn't hear because they
didn't mean anything to me at the time.

Now I remember them....too late. But maybe not.

I plan to 'wire brush' the threads to 'dress them up'.

The term to dress up a tool has new meaning to me now.

So...what's next ?

Think I'll buy one of those 3 gallon Air Compressors from Harbor-Freight
next week.
They go on sale for $39 and I have three 20% off coupons in my wallet.

I could use a motorized wheel buffer, too - buffer one side - wire brush wheel on
the other side.

Learn to weld better than the hideous messes I make now.

Maybe I can make an artificial heart for when I get into my 80's...
if I live that long.

My Compound flexes a tad...thinking of buying a $55 compound holder
made for these 9x20 lathes.
My Compound is held by two T-Nut bolts.
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ory=1963256897

Anyone bought one of these ? Comments ?

DoctorBill

[smokeywolf]

DoctorBill,

Not familiar with this part or kit. Smallest lathe I've spent time in front of (a lot of time) is a Hardinge HLV (tool room lathe). The lathe that resides in my machine shop/tool crib/storage/gunsmithing/reloading/etc. room is a 17 x 40 gap-bed engine lathe. Not much rigidity problems.
Are there any locks (clamp screws that lock your slides) on your carriage, cross-slide, or compound?
I don't recall seeing any evidence of cutting oils in your pictures. What did you use on your O-1 steel?

[DoctorBill]

No carriage clamps on this machine.

I tried something that my friend Gary suggested - rubbed candle wax on the work !
That really made it go easier !

Then just for the grins of it, I added some drops of ATF, also.
That also worked.

I know you can buy any number of things as cutting oils.

That comes later when/if I really get into producing a lot of work.

Here is my machine:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=893-1273

DoctorBill

[bearcove]

If you want a short cut take a die that is smaller inside than you want to ream. Aneal it then cut with your reamer. It might not last forever if not hardened but it will be close.

[smokeywolf]

DoctorBill,

Waxes work relatively well, but steels machine better with oils. Purified lard oil for steel, Crisco and waxes work well for aluminum. If you choose to purchase dedicated cutting fluids, consider A-9 for aluminum, and Moly Dee for ferrous steels.
Although it is cost prohibitive, in a pinch I've used Rapid Tap. Lubricity is minimal, but volatility is great for carrying away the heat.

smokeywolf

[Buckshot]

............Dr Bill, just wanted to let you know, I've not made a mistake yet. However I HAVE made lots of parts for stuff that hasn't been invented yet.

To add some suggestions to what smokeywolf mentioned for cutting. I use old time stinky dark sulferized cutting oil when cutting threads, either single pointing or with a die. If you're pushing it (the thread cutting) it WILL smoke, so have a fan behind you.



If I'm threading from a 'set point' on multiple parts, or if there is a feature, I'll run the spindle in reverse and thread from the backside. That way the tool runs off the end of the part, and not INTO a shoulder etc

For aluminum I use WD-40, but I don't do much with aluminum.

.............Buckshot