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Thread: Attempt to make a Taper Crimper on my new Lathe

  1. #41
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    I want to share something Gary did today that made my jaw drop !

    Bought two 9/16 4140 Hardened Steel Bolts with nuts and washers.

    I did as described earlier and took it to ask Gary some questions.
    He tapped the rod with a "Gun Tap" - two sided spiral point ?
    Zip - Zip - All done ! Explained AGAIN about heat treatment.

    While we were talking he casually fixed the threads on both bolts w/o ANY tools
    whatsoever and did it in less that 2 minutes !

    When you buy bolts in a store, the threads are usually boogered up because they've been
    banged around in shipment or handling. The nut usually hangs up part way along the bolt.

    I always used to put the nut in a vice and tightened the bolt into the nut to let the nut reform the
    threads. No....no.....

    While we discussed this and that, he tapped on the nuts and within seconds the nut threaded
    onto the bolts all the way !

    I stopped him and asked, "What the Hell ! How did you DO THAT !" He grins at me and explains
    something a fellow showed him years ago. You need no tools and can do it quickly.

    He turned the nut onto the bolt and when he got to a part where it turned hard or got stuck, he
    rotated the bolt so the boogered up part was facing up.

    Then he tapped the nut lightly with the other bolt cap. Done !
    He turned the nut again until it bound and repeated the above...

    The NUT threads reformed the bent screw threads by being tapped down onto the bent bolt threads !
    Pushed the threads back into place ! Light tap or two. Done ! No tools... OMG !



    Try it ! Go slap a bolt's threads on something hard and see how quickly you can fix the threads with
    the Bolt's own nut !

    He said he's fixed boogered up keyways on the front end of crankshafts (where the vibration damper goes)
    when the owner was ready to go buy a new crankshaft.

    Gently tapping with a punch and a light tap hammer.
    Push the malleable metal back to where it belongs...easy as pie !

    Same with boogered up screws from old GUNS.

    Put the screw in something with a hole in it and start gently tapping the bent
    screw head metal back toward the slot. Easy.

    Then tap the screwdriver blade into the slot to push the metal back into place if you went a bit too far.
    FIXED - Looks nearly new (polish it now).

    OMG ! This guy is amazing. Mr. Wizard of Tools (all you old guys know who Mr. Wizard was !
    Don Herbert. In the 1950's on live TV. He is on You Tube. He got me interested in Science.).

    Now - all you old, experienced machinists....don't go posting a reply telling me you learned this when
    you were five years old !

    I am 69 and I NEVER, EVER saw this done before.

    It was like magic ! No tools required and you could do it in an outhouse or on some deserted
    old dirt road, in the rain, whilst drunk...if you could see the bolt that is.

    I came home and tried it myself on an old bolt.
    Worked great in my outhouse after I had 8 beers....then I dropped it in the hole by accident.
    Oh well - it did work ! I won't go retrieve the bolt to prove it though !

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 04-26-2012 at 11:13 PM.
    Ignorance is expensive.
    Teach your children what you have learned.
    Give them a good head start in life.
    It is your duty to pass on what you have learned,
    else we will be no different than frogs.
    Your only problem - getting them to listen !
    Ribbit.....ribbit.....ribbit....

  2. #42
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    I finished adapting the Grizzly Quick Change Tool Post to my ENCO
    9"x20" Bench Lathe.

    My tool post stud to which I attach the tool holders held either a "Four Way
    Tool Post" or a crude but effective swivel clamp.

    I wanted to adapt a $130 Grizzly Quick Change Tool Post (QCTP) to my Compound.

    Why - 'cause it is Cool, man !

    So here are the parts I made to do it.



    My Tool Post is held on by a 10mm based steel rod stud of nominal 8mm metric
    threaded rod at the top.
    My TP Stud is not a "T-Slot" set up.
    See photo.

    The Grizzly QCTP has a 14mm hole in it to hold the QCTP to the compound
    with a 14mm threaded rod.
    It thus has a 14mm hole in the base.
    Above that is a long sleeve of 14.8mm ID to 22.4mm OD and is 61.2mm long.
    That is the way it is made....

    I made a 10mm ID 14mm OD Bushing to fit the base of my TP Stud into
    the base of the Grizzly QCTP.

    Then I drilled and tapped a 9/16ths bolt to screw onto my TP Stud to hold
    the Grizzly QCTP to my compound.

    All this is shown above and here is the finished product, below.



    Again - My TP Stud is not a "T-Slot" set up.

    Maybe some of you with one of these smaller Lathe's might like to have a
    QCTP that doesn't cost $500....
    http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/t10166_m.pdf

    DoctorBill
    Ignorance is expensive.
    Teach your children what you have learned.
    Give them a good head start in life.
    It is your duty to pass on what you have learned,
    else we will be no different than frogs.
    Your only problem - getting them to listen !
    Ribbit.....ribbit.....ribbit....

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
    dragonrider's Avatar
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    Well done Bill, looks good.
    Paul G.
    Once I was young, now I am old and in between went by way to fast.

    The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun.
    -- R. Buckminster Fuller

  4. #44
    Longwood
    Guest
    That looks good Bill.
    That holder will sure make things quicker.
    I love how it can get the tools right where you need them with a simple adjustment. Especially when boring.

    The surgeon said I could go ahead and shoot with the broken clavicle, so I shot a bunch of bullets from the two smokeless powder paper patch 45-70 molds, I made, over the last few days, and am pretty pleased.
    The only problem I had was with the long Malcolm scope that the rear mount does not work on. There is no elevation adjuster,, how ridiculous to make a buyer have to buy it as an accessory.
    I get to make some parts or spend $40+, whichever I prefer.
    Now comes the fun part, hitting sometimes one minute, then missing for no sensible reason, the next.
    Working up loads can be very frustrating, but fun at the same time.
    Last edited by Longwood; 04-28-2012 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Added some commas in hopes of making it legible.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    LongWood - Isn't a Clavicle a Musical Instrument ?

    You must be very talented to be able to play a musical instrument while shooting a rifle !

    I like the fact that with this QCTP, I can adjust the height of my bits simply
    by raising them to the correct height and turning the handle to tighten it up.

    Now I could shim the bits to the proper height when the tool holder is on the
    Post, so that it can simply be dropped into place and be correct.

    But, If I want to change tools, I have to phart around again with the shims.

    But being a lazy, old SOB, I don't like to do that....Pull out the dead center and line
    everything up, etc. etc.

    Then yesterday I saw something on the Internet while cruising around
    trying to learn anything I could about the Lathe.

    http://www.sherline.com/accessor.htm#latheacc which has this link in it:
    http://www.sherline.com/3009inst.htm

    Hell...what a great idea !

    So, I freshly sharpened a Wood Pencil, put it in my Chuck and rotated it by hand
    to make sure the tip was in the center, then took an Aluminum Block
    and scribed a line by sliding the block across my flat carriage on the pencil tip.

    Made this:


    Nothing but an Aluminum Block with a pencil line marked on it.
    If the Carriage is wiped off, I simply sight the Bit tip to the pencil line and
    turn the Post Handle tight.

    The Bit is now on the Center Line....

    No shimming - no pharting around.....ain't life neat !

    DoctorBill

    Question - can I use Aluminum for a Bushing for those two Quadrant Gears ?
    They won't be turning fast nor with much torque load on them.
    At least, temporarily. Don't have any Bronze around....
    Would NYLON work ? I'd think so....
    My replacement Bushing won't be here for several weeks.
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 04-28-2012 at 12:30 PM.
    Ignorance is expensive.
    Teach your children what you have learned.
    Give them a good head start in life.
    It is your duty to pass on what you have learned,
    else we will be no different than frogs.
    Your only problem - getting them to listen !
    Ribbit.....ribbit.....ribbit....

  6. #46
    Boolit Master


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    Let's face it. Carbide takes a powerful lathe and an uninterrupted cut for best results. Unless I'm trying to cut really hard metal I usually try to use High Speed (HS) tooling. Arthur R Warner Co., P.O. Box 1 Latrobe, Pa 15650 arwarnerco.com 724-539-9229 makes inserts of HS and sell the tool holders for them too. I just found them a couple of months ago but so far have had very good luck with their products. Really like their cut off blade too. I believe they'd have a tool holder that fits your QCTP. You can get various rounded tips on their inserts and it looks as though you get 6 usable tips per insert.

    Micro-mark, a hobbyist tool company sells a lathe similar to yours and has many relatively inexpensive accessories to it - including a digital readout. (micro-mark.com) I've had good results in my dealings with them and enjoy reading their catalog. They have a set of already ground HS tools for many different uses.

    Instead of just heating steel red-hot to harden it - heat it until it goes non-magnetic (as tested with a magnet) which will be in the red range. The point where it goes non-magnetic is where steel has a phase change and hardening can occur. No use heating it any hotter as it will do more harm than good.

    AGI (American Gunsmithing Institute) has a lengthy course on the lathe and also one on the mill too. Not cheap but if they're anywhere near the quality of the rest of their products they are well worth it. If memory serves me correctly they are taught by Darrel Holland who does the spring kits for the Remington 700 trigger (which I really like) that Brownell's sells.

  7. #47
    Longwood
    Guest
    Some of the tool posts have a screw, with a lock nut, down through them for adjusting. Very handy

    You can use a nice sharp tool tip, set at the exact height you want, to scribe the line in the block so it does not slowly disappear.

    I would think aluminum would work just fine for the bushing.
    Make one then if it fails, I can send you enough bronze to make one.
    I suspect the tiny teeth on the gear will let go before an aluminum bushing.

    If you are going to machine aluminum, look up how to grind the tools. The proper rake angle can make a lot of difference.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    I actually made a 'pretty' Aluminum Bushing for these Quadrant Gears to keep them aligned.



    Not too damned shabby !

    Think I'll have a beer to celebrate....

    I believe that I will try for a NYLON Bushing later on.....Not Bronze.

    My only problem....the center ID is 10.0mm and I don't have metric drills.
    I used a 13/32" which is a tad too large.

    Suppose I could have used a 25/64" and honed it bigger....
    I'll see how this works. I'll use GRAPHITE to lube it or Lithium Grease (Both mixed?).

    Edited in later: Finished it....



    Two holes thru both gears lined up with the Aluminum Bushing and the key hole slot, also.

    Aluminum wire tapped in tight and spread with a punch.

    Labeled because I did not have the where-with-all to do it symmetrically.

    &$@^ %#& &^$@ *& - came out a mm too short !

    In my haste to cut it off, I encroached on the length I had measured and now
    the bolt that holds all to the T-Slot squishes the gears and won't permit them
    to rotate....Dirty-rotton-shaderapin'-blasted-fladerapper !

    LESSON - make it longer - you can cut off excess. Make it too short - Duh ?

    But THAT squeezing of the bushing is a good reason not to use Aluminum...!
    ..or Plastic, even. Has to squeeze the bushing pretty hard.
    Bronze or sintered steel or even Brass is called for...Bugger !

    Oh well ...... it was practice on the Lathe. Came out looking nice.

    I'll go mow the Lawn...at least I can do THAT OK.

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 04-28-2012 at 07:43 PM.
    Ignorance is expensive.
    Teach your children what you have learned.
    Give them a good head start in life.
    It is your duty to pass on what you have learned,
    else we will be no different than frogs.
    Your only problem - getting them to listen !
    Ribbit.....ribbit.....ribbit....

  9. #49
    Banned
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    For my center height measue i made this:

    Height adjustable.


  10. #50
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    Hot Damn, Chicken Thief, I like your method even better !

    BTW - How many times have you stuck yourself with that point ?

    I will soon be off to make one ! Thanks for the picture....

    Maybe now I can get back to working on my Taper Crimp Tool....

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 04-29-2012 at 01:24 AM.
    Ignorance is expensive.
    Teach your children what you have learned.
    Give them a good head start in life.
    It is your duty to pass on what you have learned,
    else we will be no different than frogs.
    Your only problem - getting them to listen !
    Ribbit.....ribbit.....ribbit....

  11. #51
    Boolit Master R.M.'s Avatar
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    Bill take a look here.
    http://www.hardinge.com/usr/PDF/tooling/1318.PDF
    Page 32, Adjustable Tool Setting Gage
    R.M.

    The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of tyrants and patriots alike..........Thomas Jefferson

  12. #52
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    Holy Mackerel !

    My friend Gary just called.

    I had told him by E-Mail that my bushing was too short and it allowed the Gears
    to be squished between the holding bolt ends.

    He said that that cannot happen if it is set up as I described it.

    By God - he is right !



    AND....AND....He said that that is perhaps the reason why the original part broke !

    The Old Sintered Steel Broken Bushing is 0.625 long and the Axle Bolt is
    0.609 long where it holds the Gears !

    So - the Bushing was being crushed by the Axle Nut used to hold the Axle
    Bolt in the T-Slot on the right !



    When I get the replacement Bushing, if it is longer than the Axle Bolt Center
    Section, I need to grind it's length down to where it won't be crushed.

    Ha ! The Chinese screwed up ! They made the Bushing too long.

    ENCO is going to have an ongoing Warranty Problem with this Lathe if all
    those Quadrant Gear Key Bushings are too long ! Which I would assume they are...

    I E-Mailed the Warranty guy and explained this to him...can't say they weren't warned.

    By tightening the T-Bolt down so it wouldn't wobble, one crushes the Bushing !

    And Gary fingered that out from my photos and explanations...

    Why didn't you guys finger that out ?

    I assembled it again and my Bushing works great !

    Gary even said I should slip a piece of felt into the now empty keyway slot
    and put oil in it to keep the Bushing oiled all the time !
    The Aluminum should not go dry that way and should be OK.

    Do you see ! This Gary is a genius ! He should be given an Honorary PhD
    in Machining....

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 04-29-2012 at 03:10 AM.
    Ignorance is expensive.
    Teach your children what you have learned.
    Give them a good head start in life.
    It is your duty to pass on what you have learned,
    else we will be no different than frogs.
    Your only problem - getting them to listen !
    Ribbit.....ribbit.....ribbit....

  13. #53
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    Question for all you's Machinist guys.

    Are the Tool Fixtures that slide into the Quick Change Tool Holders standardized ?



    Grizzly doesn't even know - they don't have "parts" for it...clerks !

    I would assume (***-u-me) that mine are either "Series 100" or "AXA" sized as
    seen in some catalogs (smallest size), but Grizzly is of no help !

    If I measured them, no catalog gives the dimensions in any case.

    Not measured correctly with dowels (no idea how to do that!) but here is something...


    They may all be "proprietary" - individual to that manufacturer - yes ?

    I like the way people sell things....here it is, take it as is or go away.

    Whine !

    DoctorBill

    These people have low priced ones...
    http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 04-30-2012 at 09:33 PM.
    Ignorance is expensive.
    Teach your children what you have learned.
    Give them a good head start in life.
    It is your duty to pass on what you have learned,
    else we will be no different than frogs.
    Your only problem - getting them to listen !
    Ribbit.....ribbit.....ribbit....

  14. #54
    Boolit Master
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    I can't answer your question but the folks at Little Machine Shop probably can. In looking at their catalog, the holders for the 0XA, AXA, and BXA tool posts (all made by Tormach) have different catalog numbers so my guess is that a holder made for one model of toolpost will not work on another model.

    http://littlemachineshop.com/
    If you get your shots in the black, the 10s and Xs will take care of themselves.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    From what I have been reading Aloris started all this and everyone copied it.

    I cannot find actual dimension anywhere - anybody ? !

    I could spend the $20 for one just to find out if it fits from
    http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php
    but that seems a piss poor way to determine it !

    Edited in Later (5-2):
    Grizzly says these are for Series 100. They should say that in their future Catalogs !
    Think I'll by three of them from CDCO Machinery for $8 each instead of $20 each....
    http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php

    Edited in 5-7-2012 Rcvd from CDCO Machinery 3 for $38 instead of $74 (shipping $14).
    They fit just fine - Series 100 (AXA).


    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-08-2012 at 07:44 PM.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    Just for FYI.

    The 80 tooth Plastic Gear is the same for the Grizzly G4000, my ENCO 9"x20
    and the JET BD920. (From the Yahoo 9x20 group)

    Grizzly sells that gear in Metal for $18 (P4000119A) - I backordered one.

    This place has the Plastic Gear in stock for $40 (Part No 1014)
    http://www.waltermeier.com/us/en/splash.html
    specifically - https://parts.maam.waltermeier.com/Parts.aspx?part=1014

    Just thought this information might be of use to someone....

    I am continuing on with my Taper Crimping Tool.

    I 'think' I figured out the threading gearing, set it up and engraved some lines in a
    plastic rod with turning the spindle by hand. Looks like it made a 14 tpi groove....

    The Lathe has the gears set now for 8 thru 14 tpi.

    My 'homemade' bushing is too loose to try running the Lathe by it's motor, so
    I am awaiting the replacement bushing before trying actual threading. I'm Chicken !

    I also need to grind a thread cutting bit. 60 - right ?

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-02-2012 at 10:55 PM.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    How many reading this thread have a Chinese Lathe ?

    ENCO doesn't have the parts I need 'in stock' - they say they'll have to obtain them.

    Grizzly doesn't have the gear in stock - coming in June....

    Is this "Normal" ?

    Maybe people shouldn't buy theses Lathes because Chinese Factories don't
    make much (any ?) effort to support their products.

    ENCO, Grizzly, Jet, Harbor Freight should have a good stock of replacement
    parts on hand and it appears that they do not.

    If we have to wait months with the Lathe idle or are forced to make broken parts
    ourselves, then it should be widely known to the buying public.

    Most low cost tools are 'throw away', but a $1,000 Lathe is just too going far.

    Just poor business practice.

    DoctorBill

  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBill View Post
    How many reading this thread have a Chinese Lathe ?

    ENCO doesn't have the parts I need 'in stock' - they say they'll have to obtain them.

    Grizzly doesn't have the gear in stock - coming in June....

    ENCO, Grizzly, Jet, Harbor Freight should have a good stock of replacement
    parts on hand and it appears that they do not.

    Most low cost tools are 'throw away', but a $1,000 Lathe is just too going far.

    DoctorBill
    http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1106&category=

    http://littlemachineshop.com/product...3450&category=

    The plastic gear is $7.20 and the metal gear is $21.95. Neither listing says that it is out of stock.
    If you get your shots in the black, the 10s and Xs will take care of themselves.

  19. #59
    Longwood
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by C.F.Plinker View Post
    http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1106&category=

    http://littlemachineshop.com/product...3450&category=

    The plastic gear is $7.20 and the metal gear is $21.95. Neither listing says that it is out of stock.
    While you are there Bill, check out their belt drive in replacement parts.

    I just ordered a quick change tool post set and one of those DRO gadgets that I plan on using with very strong magnets so I can move it from place to place.

    Do you still have the four jaw chuck that was not made correctly?
    If you do, do you want to sell it?

  20. #60
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    LongWood -

    "check out their belt drive in replacement parts."
    I got a belt from KAMAN bearings - a Gates Belt for $11.

    "Do you still have the four jaw chuck that was not made correctly?
    If you do, do you want to sell it?"


    My friend Gary says he can fix it quite easily - so I plan to keep it.

    Sorry....

    I have contacted "Walter Meier" a JET supplier, Harbor Freight, and Grizzly for the
    Bushing for the Quadrant Gears.

    The Metal (instead of Plastic) gear in on order from Grizzly...

    It sure puts the kibosh on ordering Chinese Machines from places like ENCO
    when they are known for not having replacement parts in stock and people
    have to wait for months to get those parts (if ever !)...

    Why would anyone buy from them if their reputation is bad ?
    I certainly didn't expect this !

    Edited in later - Just now ordered the Quadrant Gear Bushing from Walter Meier
    for $9 (in stock).
    https://parts.maam.waltermeier.com/Default.aspx ......a somewhat obtuse web site.
    It is for the JET BD920 Lathe - let's hope they are the same !



    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-03-2012 at 04:23 PM.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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GC Gas Check