IMR 800X does it all?

[runfiverun]

midrange,,, 800-x takes up room in the case.
it is 700-x, but bigger and has a little burn deterrent coating applied, but other than that it's the same recipe as 700-x.

[35remington]

In 45 ACP, high performance only. I see its usage in light loads or when thousands of standard velocity loads must be turned out as something of a misapplication. There are other powders that meter more repeatably and use less per shot that make much more sense to use for these things.

With light target loads unconsumed flakes are much in evidence.

[Jtarm]

I've been eyeballing 800x since it's about the only pistol powder consistently in stock (besides AA super handicap), but the metering stories made me shy away. I guess I could make a dipper.

How does it meter through MEC charge bars?

The only thing I'd have use for it in is .44 Special & .357 magnum & I seldom shoot magnums anymore. The 7.62x54r does get my attention, though.

I guess 12 gauge, too, but only if I run out of Green Dot or Clays. The latter is a distinct possibility, but 800x sounds too slow for a target powder.

Maybe 20 gauge if my son ever decides to shoot the O/U I bought him for Christmas. If he doesn't, I may screw a chunk of walnut into the butt & start shooting it.

[Blackwater]

Thanks Run. I've been looking at 800X for a while as a possible powder for 20 ga. shotgun, and have seen data for it, but haven't heard a great deal about it in .45 ACP, so may just pick up a few lbs. of it and give it a try. I'm to pick up my pair of Combat Commanders tomorrow, and if I can just FIND some, I'll give it a try on y'all's say-so. Could be interesting. I don't care about its large grain sizes. I learned long ago to use a 30 cal. spout on my measure and that took care of just about all my bridging, and tapping the hopper to settle the powder well before measuring, plus knocking the handle 3 times on both up and down strokes has given me much better consistency in measuring the long grained stuff like 4350 & 4831 & 4064, and I anticipate it'll do good with a big flake powder too. Ain't no way to tell but to try it and see.

[35remington]

The bridging in the Lee measure occurs within the cavity. Having a bigger funnel on the end doesn't help. This is a matter of granule size versus cavity diameter, not a matter of funneling the charge into the case. For me, whacking the measure multiple times to get the powder to settle if of large flake size does not produce the charge consistency of a finer granuled powder running the measure sans pounding and whacking. The more manipulation the measure requires the lower the potential consistency, as it requires doing multiple things the same way each time. Which is unlikely.

The more manipulation, the more variation.

Since shotgun charges and charge cavities are much larger bridging and meterability and not the issue pistol sized charges are.

[Blackwater]

Ah! Now I SEE! Thanks. I have RCBS, Ohaus and Pacific measures and haven't used the Lee. Looks like I lucked out for once. Interesting about the Lees. Thanks for the info. I have a couple of friends thinking about getting into loading, and they mentioned the Lee measure specifically. I'll try to get them to go with another type because they're really not the type yet to want to bother with special treatment that the Lee apparently requires, and they're both capable of buying better. They're just cheap, like me. You may have saved them money and frustration in getting started. Thanks!

[retread]

I ordered 700-X from Grafs and they sent me 800-X by mistake. Since it was during the time period where nothing was available I did not complain, just kept it. It is good in most of the calibers I have tried it in, though it does not meter like smaller flake. In the Dillon it is acceptable however.

[runfiverun]

in shot shell sized volumes it does pretty good.
made a bushing to drop 34 grs of it in one of my ponsess warrens to load duck loads with and run it in one of my other ponsess's for the 20 ga loads when making up grouse loads.

it meters about 20 times better than steel.
I made a stand for a Mec slider top so I could drop the powder right onto a pan to weigh every load of steel powder. [and steel shot payload too]
I don't do that with 800-x in the shot shells it drops pretty consistent.

[Lead Fred]

Being all I have are 45s, I use it in all of them. 45ACP, 45C, and 45/70

[35remington]

Blackwater, the Lee is not a problem if large flake powders are not used in small diameter cavities. I wouldn't necessarily not recommend the Lee as it expands and charges in the same step when the case is raised, sort of automatically, which is a great time saver. I use it regularly on purpose.....but I am aware of its limitations. All measures have limitations, and the Lee's are easily avoided or circumvented. In fairness, Lee mentions not using large flake powders in small cavities in their directions. Since the height of the metering bar is fixed, the only way to alter volume is to change the diameter of the cavity.

When it gets too small, it bridges IN the cavity. Not a big deal....use Bullseye, W231, WST, Titegroup, etc. in small cavities. Warning against the Lee without giving ALL the information is doing the Lee a disservice, and the whole point is giving accurate information about a product so someone can make a proper choice. That's what I'm doing here.

In other words, no Unique or 800X or Red Dot or Clays in the 32 auto or 380. Truthfully, in most 45 ACP sized charges of standardish velocity 800X is NOT a problem in the Lee measure. It is when they get to standard velocity 38 Special size charges or smaller that problems develop.

My personal "bottom end" for large flake powders in the Lee is around 3.7-4.0 grains.

[BlaineD]

I agree with 35remington. I never throw less than 4gr of 800x or Titegroup with the Lee. Bullseye is the only thing I've tried with less than 4gr with the Auto Disk and it was fine.

To be honest, I've never had an issue either way, but why take chances when it works just fine that way.

[35remington]

Titegroup meters like water and is fine in the small cavities in the Lee Auto Disk or Pro Auto Disk as is Bullseye. 800X is not.

[abqcaster]

My Autodisk, as others have stated, is lousy at metering small charges with flake powders, but it meters them very consistently at 4gr+, also as others have stated. Having said that, I do love having discovered 700X 800X and ETR7. They work very well in my .380, 38spl, 9mm and .32SWL. So, I put in a tiny bit more effort by charging them in an extra step with my Lee Perfect Powder measure. Yeah I could have spent more on a higher end one, but it works well for these charges too. Plus, I load more rounds when I do these calibers, it makes it more worthwhile. YMMV -ABQ

[9w1911]

It meters well in my Dillon however I measure each charge, my life is that exciting.

[Blackwater]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll make sure they know the full story, and I DO appreciate it. Hard to give good advice on stuff I don't know about from actual use, but thanks to you guys, I can relay your comments with confidence to them. Thanks a bunch. This is one of the FEW places on the net where I feel I can trust 90% of what is printed here. That's an asset few sites can boast of! Thanks.

[abqcaster]

Here's my latest foray with 800X in .357mag:
Cases = Starline (untrimmed)
Primers = CCI 550 SPM
Powder = 8.5gr 800X (of course) dispensed with a lee autodisk .95 cavity.
Boolit = Lee 358-158-RF pop-can PBGC

Out of a 6" revolver:

String:	1
Date:	7/14/2015
Time:	5:40:45 PM
Grains:	158
Hi Vel:	2398
Low Vel:	1085
Ave Vel:	1359
Ext Spread:	1313
Std Dev:	419
revolver
Velocity	Power Factor	Ft/Lbs
1094	172.852	419.849
1158	182.964	470.409
1117	176.486	437.688
*1694	267.652	1006.666
*2398	378.884	2017.238
1085	171.43	412.97
1136	179.488	452.705
1173	185.334	482.675
*1766	279.028	1094.057
1154	182.332	467.165
1184	187.072	491.77

* I ended up tossing these values, because a) they're pretty much impossible given the rifle data, b) I had no problems at all with case extraction or any other overpressure signs, and c) I still have all my fingers. I think I may have been too close to the chrono and was measuring other debris (loose GCs?).

Out of a rifle, 18.5" barrel, bolt action:

String:	2
Date:	7/14/2015
Time:	5:42:23 PM
Grains:	158
Hi Vel:	1539
Low Vel:	1488
Ave Vel:	1516
Ext Spread:	51
Std Dev:	15
rifle
Velocity	Power Factor	Ft/Lbs
1516	239.528	806.227
1525	240.95	815.828
1529	241.582	820.113
1493	235.894	781.949
1504	237.632	793.514
1523	240.634	813.689
1488	235.104	776.72
1532	242.056	823.334
1513	239.054	803.039
1518	239.844	808.355
1539	243.162	830.875
1523	240.634	813.689
1513	239.054	803.039
1501	237.158	790.351
1534	242.372	825.485

As you can see the rifle data are very consistent, as are the pistol data without the really extreme shots.

-ABQ

[35remington]

Yep, somebody's chrono wasn't reading the revolver correctly. The only way a 357 revolver would come within 50 percent of 2000 ft lbs is if it exploded due to over pressure while launching the bullet.

[NavyVet1959]

Yep, somebody's chrono wasn't reading the revolver correctly. The only way a 357 revolver would come within 50 percent of 2000 ft lbs is if it exploded due to over pressure while launching the bullet.

You would need about 2024 fps with a 110 gr bullet. Achievable in a rifle, but I'm not so sure about handguns (other than a Thompson Contender or Encore "handgun" that has basically a rifle length barrel).

[abqcaster]

Yep, somebody's chrono wasn't reading the revolver correctly. The only way a 357 revolver would come within 50 percent of 2000 ft lbs is if it exploded due to over pressure while launching the bullet.

I'm inclined to agree!

[NavyVet1959]

I'm inclined to agree!

OK... I did a bit of research after my last post and I found a revolver where it might just be possible. Uberti makes a "Buntline" revolver (handgun) in .357 mag with an 18" barrel. That should give you rifle velocities in a "revolver".

Hodgdon says 21gr of H4227 with a 110gr Hornady XTP will give you 2233 fps out of an 18.5" barrel. That works out to be 1217 ft-lbs.