Reloading Cast in Wolf Steel .223 Cases

[zxcvbob]

@Mud Eagle: Yes it comes off, and within hours they oxidize to a nice shiny dark blue gray (at least when using phosphoric acid; I haven't tried citric or ascorbic.)

Keep them dry? Also the film of lanolin or wax or castor oil leftover from sizing them should help. Wipe them off, but don't degrease them. I have some cases I prepped a month ago in a ziplock bag and they still look like when I put them there.

I do get occasional failures to extract with steel cases, and that's with a clean chamber. I wonder if a small base FL die is in order? Or maybe I need to use them just for lighter loads? (has to do with the yield strength and spring-back of steel vs. brass, which I don't really understand) I'm loading 62 grain bullets for a 16" barrel with 1:9 twist, so I'm loading them hot -- trying to match M855's. Perhaps I need to save the steel cases for when I'm loading 55's and can back off just a little.

[frkelly74]

I wouldn't clean them by any strenuous method. Just a quick wipe maybe with a rag and leave a little case lube in place . the lee lube leaves a kind of waxy finish. Steel unprotected rusts. I would only load up ones to be shot pretty quickly, not for long term storage. It is bangin" ammo.

[JKH]

I have reloaded quite a few hundred Wolf steel .223 cases, both laquered and polymer, the last 100 polymer I loaded were not very accurate but I was using up some old commercial FMJ's with blunt tips (cant remember the brand off hand, got them as part of a larger deal).

I havent loaded any of these cases more than 3 or 4 times, however they dont seem to have degraded noticeably except for some wear to the finish from loading and cycling trough my AR15 ( I did shoot some through my sub 1/2 moa Savage 10PC and got almost 2" groups! In an AR they always give good plinking accuracy except those funky blunts I had).

When I tumble mine I use untreated white rice for 2 hours, wont always make tarnished cases super shiny but does make them completely clean, even removes any rust from steel cases without risking case failure from chemical break down.

My ultimate cheap ammo is Wolf steel cases with Lee Bator boolits, using homemade gas checks and 30+ year old CCI primers I bought 10 years ago at a lawn sale for $5/1000 and a pinch of fast powder, only way I can do it cheaper is to reload spent primers with match heads

Jeff

[Mud Eagle]

Thanks, guys. I just picked up a hundred or so Tula cases at the range yesterday and wanted to ginve it a try, but my only tumbling setup is the stainless pins.

My concern was twofold; if the stainless tumbling took off the polymer coating, how would that impact oxidation/rusting of the cases while they're stored, and how would it impact extraction (since the entire point of the polymer coating is to aid in extraction, of course after corrosion prevention).

I'm using Lee case lube in the sizing process...I wonder if, as @frkelly74 says, I just left the residual lube on there after sizing, it would help both corrosion protection and extraction from an AR. I use an RCBS small base sizing die, so that may help, too.

Thanks for the insight, gents. I'm a somewhat noob reloader and caster, but been reading/lurking CB for some time -- the range of experience here is amazing.

[zxcvbob]

I decap, then tumble them with SS pins and a phosphoric acid based cleaner that I had already. I take them out and rinse them, roll them around on a towel, then put them on a warm hotplate to dry. They end up with a slick polished surface that almost looks blued. Actually it looks more like Parkerized except it's not porous. Then I spray with Dillon case lube and resize them, and put them away in a ziplock bag. That's it. It is less work than processing brass cases.

I almost forgot, when I reload them I'll chamfer the inside of the case mouth slightly with a countersink bit in a cordless drill. Just enough to break the sharp edge if there is one, I don't really want to remove any metal.

[Mud Eagle]

Thanks for the tips...I'm going to try that this weekend just for kicks!

[JKH]

Mud Eagle,

You could leave case lube residue to help squelch corrosin, however, any lubricant left on the cases will prevent them from gripping the chambers walls and siginificantly increasing bolt thrust with a great deal more pressure on the case head, this wont necessarilly cause catastraphic failurr in a modern arm but can accelerate increased bolt lug/locking recess wear which will precipitage increased headspace over time. Older firearms and certain types that the bolts lock at the rear (lever actions, FAL's, Rem 788, MAS 49, British Enfields though not the P14) will flex and spring a LOT upon firing, they are much more prone to headspace issues and blowback type actions should never have lube on cases.

I would do as other members suggest, tumble them and dry them A.S.A.P. (I use a cookie sheet in the oven) and load them right away and seal them in Zip Lok baggies till you shoot them and you should have no problems. Personally I dont use any steel cases that have more than very minor interior surface rust and using tumbling media that leaves the polymer coating intact is best for corrosion protection, some of mine have been loaded close to 2 years and look like they just came out of the Wolf box when new. So you may want to forego the SS pins and buy a bag of white rice and use it alone, it wont harm the coating but will thoroughly clean them, size and deprime after tumbling otherwise rice kernals will get stuck in the flash holes and take much more time to remove, ask me how I know ; )

HtH

Jeff

[Mud Eagle]

Thanks JKH -- I did not think about the cases being "too" slick and increasing bolt lug pressure and wear.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Interesting!!!!!!!!!!

Guess the one question I'd have is what about die life runing steel and much harder cases through them?????????

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Mud Eagle]

Interesting!!!!!!!!!!

Guess the one question I'd have is what about die life runing steel and much harder cases through them?????????

That's the myth -- that the cases are "much harder".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBAh_8usXBI

[725]

Damage to dies would be my concern. You guys seem to not have had that happen.

[Mud Eagle]

So you may want to forego the SS pins and buy a bag of white rice and use it alone, it wont harm the coating but will thoroughly clean them

Do you mean white rice in the Thumler instead of the pins? Cool idea, I'm going to try that.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Sorry Mud Eagle, Seldom would it be the case that steel IS NOT harder then brass, so my question stands.

CDOC

[Mud Eagle]

Sorry Mud Eagle, Seldom would it be the case that steel IS NOT harder then brass, so my question stands.

I can't say anything about die life if you do run "much harder" cases through them -- logic says there might be increased wear -- but that doesn't mean that the Russian-made steel cartridges we're talking about here are, by definition, "much harder", and the evidence presented certainly does not support that either.

Since the test I linked performed Rockwell hardness tests on actual Russian steel cases, and directly compared them to harness tests of both nickel-coated brass and straight cartridge brass, then I am struggling to understand why this would not fall into your category of "seldom" as you have made the statement.

If you have direct evidence to the contrary, then I'd be highly interested to see it.

No dog in this fight, but am more prone to form opinions and make decisions based on actual evidence rather than hearsay.

[JKH]

Mud Eagle,

Yes, rice in your vibratory cleaner, you can also use crushed corn cob bedding for hamsters/gerbils that is very cheap at Wal-Mart HOWEVER, the kernals that work into the case are extremely difficult to get out unless .30 cal or larger but it does a good job as well, otherwise stick with the rice.

Crusty,

Steel used for cartridge cases as a matter of necessity are as soft as brass, they are nade in the exact same manner being drawn from blanks/cups and heat treated in the same manner, steel case walls must be able to expand to properly obturate and seal the chamber, actually it is very old technology and well established but using Brass is preferred in that it is more resistant to corrosion in storage than steel in some case but not all, there are still millions of rounds of USGI steel cased .45acp rounds that are like new from WWII as long as the spam cans are intact.

Loading dies are made from hardened tool steel and difficult to impossible to wear out, steel cases are very soft and maleable and will be worn by the dies.

Hth

Jeff

[Mud Eagle]

Just for kicks, ran the ugliest of the Tula range pickups I had through the tumbler with stainless pins, a little detergent, and a little Lemi-shine.

As promised, the polymer coating came off, leaving a nice nickel-like dull shine. Rust all gone, revealing some minor pitting on some of the cases (pretty easy to spot looking like that, and thus easy to cull off into the trash). The necks, which were somewhat sharp when I picked them up, didn't seem to have any significant rough edges or burrs after stainless tumbling. Not sure if I'll hit 'em with the chamfer tool or not.

The only thing that was a little different between the steel cases post-tumbling and comparable brass, the inside of the steel cases weren't as squeaky-clean as the brass usually is. The necks were pretty clean, but q-tip swipes down inside the cases sometimes resulted in what appears the remains of the polymer coatings stuck in there.



Lubed them with some Lee case lube, and they went through my small base sizing dies easily. Easy wipe down of the case lube, then put them in a Ziploc with a small desiccant pack to sit until I figure out what to do with 'em.

[EMC45]

Those look great Mud Eagle!

[Echo]

They said that it just couldn't be done, but I (of course) denied it;
I wouldn't admit that it couldn't be done, until I had at least tried it!
I buckled right in, with a trace of a grin, By Golly, I jumped right to it!
I Tackled That Job That Couldn't Be Done - and found I couldn't do it...

Brother Jacky Vernon, IIRC

[Mud Eagle]

Here's some of that stuff that couldn't be done: CCI 400 primers, a load of Varget, and 62 grain FMJs.







The results....pretty boring stuff. Normal looking brass with no abnormal gas blowback patterns, no split necks, no case separation. No stuck cases, no problems feeding.

[JKH]

Hey Mud Eagle,

Yowza! Thats the way to to do it man

What was accuracy like? Nice to see another AR lover that keeps it simple, no BS **** bolted all over your rifle and good old A2 sights : ) I use a carry handle on my carbine like you but admit to using a Holosite on occasion (good for close up and fast, beyonf 50 yards it cant compete with peep sights).
Anyway, good job with the steel cases and keeping the bling factor down!

Jeff