spelling

[DCM]

When I worked in the engine rooms of various ships, some of the better engineers, from whom I learned, did not make it out of elementary school. Yet, the were still able to pass the test and become licensed steam engineers. Diesel boats, the engineers were usually better educated but not better engineers. So I can see where the ability to spell has little to do with one's knowledge of a craft.

I have a VERY good long time friend that is EXTREMELY mechanically inclined. he can easily put most mechanical engineers to shame in a heartbeat. He cannot spell to save his life, but give him anything mechanical to fix and he will do it right before you can spell it!

But at least he TRIES to spell correctly, capitalize and use punctuation! He may not do it right all the time but he does put in effort any ways unlike some.

The fact that he doesn't do well with this doesn't make him a bad person by any means! He is the one person I can DEFINITELY count on when the chips are down! No matter what!!!

[Bullet Caster]

Ola,
It seems that your English was very well learned as I do not have any trouble reading your posts. I just wish I could communicate in Finnish the way you do in English. I've never put anyone down for their grammar or spelling as I too am human and prone to errors. Sort of like, "let he who is without guilt cast the first stone." I have always strived to communicate with the best grammar I know how and to the best of my abilities as I was taught in junior high school. I try to keep abreast of current trends in the English language and was surprized to find that the word "irregardless" is now acceptable for use in our everchanging language. I was typing a professional report and used the word "irregardless" and was sent packing with a retype in hand. From early in grammar school until now, I have seen quite a change in what is acceptable now as opposed to then. Sometimes it just "blows my mind." BC

[gandydancer]

come on guys lighten up.the next thing you know you all will be complaining about a dress code on here. or we all will be wearing funny little hats and pitching about the Queens English. GD

[firefly1957]

Sasquatch-1 Had a good point with the old Star Trek show either outer limits or twilight zone had another were a future soldier was sent back in time and spoke only in abbreviations which is the why we are heading. Did those shows show my age?

[kappy]

What scares me about this is that in another generation this may be acceptable. It may even be taught in our schools just like the attempt to teach ebonics in the lower income areas a few years ago.

This also reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (the original series) where Kirk is on a planet and this guy is reciting something just before he is supposed to go on trial. It ends up it is a very corrupted version of the Pledge of Alliegence. After pondering what this character is saying, Kirk relizes and starts repeating the original version, to everyones amazement.

I will be one of the first to admit that my grammer is terrible and my spelling may be worst but this whole texting thing is another of the many things corrupting our youth.

The episode was called "The Omega Glory." An excellent episode which almost became the pilot for ST.

And again... I don't allow people to claim texting as an excuse. If you text, text with moderately proper grammar and spelling. I think the real problem is that we type everything on computers and don't ever really have to learn to spell.

[kappy]

Ola,
It seems that your English was very well learned as I do not have any trouble reading your posts. I just wish I could communicate in Finnish the way you do in English. I've never put anyone down for their grammar or spelling as I too am human and prone to errors. Sort of like, "let he who is without guilt cast the first stone." I have always strived to communicate with the best grammar I know how and to the best of my abilities as I was taught in junior high school. I try to keep abreast of current trends in the English language and was surprized to find that the word "irregardless" is now acceptable for use in our everchanging language. I was typing a professional report and used the word "irregardless" and was sent packing with a retype in hand. From early in grammar school until now, I have seen quite a change in what is acceptable now as opposed to then. Sometimes it just "blows my mind." BC

"Irregardless" is still nonstandard English. There are some folks questioning whether it should be upgraded to being somewhat tolerated... but it still isn't quite kosher.

[Bullet Caster]

Yeah, kappy, I'd probably be the first person to sign up against using nonstandard English words as though they were already acceptable. I guess sometimes we older generations have to bend with the wind or get blown away. Please don't get me started on trite expressions. They're a pet peeve too, sometimes. BC

[waksupi]

If you would sometime like to see some world class bad spelling and punctuation, catch me in chat some evening. Guaranteed to please!

[snuffy]

This is my pet peeve on forums, one continuous paragraph.

I've always been good at English and other languages and have always prized myself in knowing how to use good English. I always proofread anything I type not only for correctness but for correct grammar as well. Even in this thread I've noticed non capitalized I for the first person singular, but also I've noticed split infinitives, i.e., to not buy or to not do. I've also noticed that they're a few who do not know the use of "then" and "than". I could have been an English teacher but chose another field of study. Just wished I had continued with English. Having a proper knowledge in the English language helps with other languages as well. I have found that in English you can make your thoughts known either in the active or passive voice, use the first person or refer to yourself in the third. There are a lot of ways to say something in English. Not so true of other languages. German has a distinctive word order and capitalized every noun. In Spanish the adjective follows the noun and they have two past tenses, different verb endings for each person, and of course they have perfect, future perfect tenses and use two different verbs for "to be". There are rules in language just as there are rules in mathematics. One must learn the rules in order to be able to use correct English. I know that many abbreviations are necessarily used on this forum and I started out using them. But then I started to think about the lurkers who read a lot of information and I certainly do not want to add to their confusion over mere terms. So now I spell everything out, try to use proper punctuation and grammar but, as I am a human creature, I am sometimes too lazy to look up a word in the dictionary and merely guess at its spelling.

It's just that it's hard to read without breaks in the thought line.

I try real hard to spell correctly. I do use firefox, so I make use of the spell checker. As far as grammar, I think it's highly over rated. Dangling participles, and the proper use of verbs and adjectives matter little to me.

I made it through the required english classes in high school by the skin of my teeth, just barely. I couldn't see any reason to learn all the finer points of english, boy how wrong I was. I never knew I would be trying to share what I know with people around the world on a forum like this.

[geargnasher]

Reading a thread like this is quite daunting for a non-English speaker.

For example Finnish is completely different kind of language and that's why I have no idea f.e. how the punctuation goes in English. I just try to get myself understood without it.

Hope you are not too disgusted because of it.

Now hold on a minute! I have never had trouble reading or understanding any of your posts, and your grasp of English sentence structure and diagramming is probably better than most Americans. No need to apologize at all, I applaud and somewhat appreciate the supreme effort needed to communicate in the most screwed-up language on earth, especially if you don't think in English. I notice this from many "foreigners" here on the site who's principle or native language is drastically different than English. Slight errors in punctuation are usually due to differences in sentence structure between the languages, particularly the Asian and "romance" languages. I also notice that Germans tend to get gender mixed up when translating to English, and anyone who's studied German would understand why.

What irks the crud out of me and many others is PURE LAZINESS. Not someone from a non-English-speaking country who already knows probably three languages and spends half an hour with a translating dictionary before each post. Just like was mentioned about the posters who are too lazy to do a simple site search or Google search for something and just want it spoon-fed to them, some people think it's their "right" to take liberties with spelling and syntax. I'm afraid that the modern concept of universally accepting moral and intellectual degenerates and supporting them is at the root of our country's impending failure.

Gear

[montana_charlie]

Reading a thread like this is quite daunting for a non-English speaker.

For example Finnish is completely different kind of language and that's why I have no idea f.e. how the punctuation goes in English. I just try to get myself understood without it.

Hope you are not too disgusted because of it.

If I spoke Finnish, I would be proud if I could do as well as you do when writing in English. Your word choice, sentence structure, and general grammar are better than many who post here ... for whom English is their native language.

Reading your input is much more enjoyable than deciphering that of the writer who can only find the Shift Key when enclosing a parentetical lift of his shoulders.

CM

[303Guy]

'Irregardless' has still made it into the dictionary.

Irregardless means the same as regardless, but the negative prefix ir- merely duplicates the suffix -less, and is unnecessary. The word dates back to the 19th century, but is regarded as incorrect in standard English.

It's 'irrespective'!

Spelling can vary as can the use of English and its grammar. Like is it different than or different to or different from? Or is it compared to or compared with or compared against?

[kappy]

I still remember on another board where someone tried to correct my English. I do make mistakes... but I feel that it is poor behavior to correct someone's language on a board unless it is so terrible that you cannot make out what they mean at all.

So... what did I do? I posted after him EVERY TIME he posted for the next few days, quoting him and correcting every mistake, including split infinitives, misspellings, homophone errors, subject/verb agreements, dangling prepositions, dangling modifiers, using adjectives instead of adverbs (my personal pet peeve), etc. If he wanted me to be an English teacher 24 hours per day, all he had to do was ask.

[Ola]

If I spoke Finnish, I would be proud if I could do as well as you do when writing in English. Your word choice, sentence structure, and general grammar are better than many who post here ... for whom English is their native language.

Reading your input is much more enjoyable than deciphering that of the writer who can only find the Shift Key when enclosing a parentetical lift of his shoulders.

Thank you, I'm glad to hear it.

There is two main reasons why Finns usually are quite good in English. First the school system is teaching the basic skills and the ability to write in English. Secondly there is the "Hollywood-effect". We watch a LOT of American (and English, also some Canadian and Australian) movies and TV-series. With subtitles. So we are constantly bombarded with spoken English. After couple of years vocabulary has grown big enough and the subtitles start becoming unnecessary..

[StrawHat]

It doesn't.........but it has everything to do with communicating information about that craft to others.

Only with written communication. And that is the concern of this thread. These fellow were eloquent speakers but the written word was something that had escaped them. When we made port, I would sometimes go to the bank with one of them as a witness to the mark he made on the paycheck. Not an "X" but a picturegraph of his last name. I would present my ID and sign the check as proof the fellow was who he claimed. You rarely meet folks like that today holding down good jobs but when I started sailing, it was common enough.

[Sasquatch-1]

Look, I don't know what all the hubbub is about English. In 15 to 20 years we will all be speaking Spanish or Farsi ( and yes I had to look that one up) or something of that nature. (I hope)

[gnoahhh]

It's all good. I doubt anybody here thinks the less of anybody else because of their language skills (at least I hope not). Poor language skills merely result in less-than-effective communication of the knowledge that person is trying to disseminate.

One thing I have noticed is the quality of language used here has improved a lot since the last time one of these threads generated debate on this subject. Perhaps after this one it'll improve some more. Very soon we'll all be writing like college professors!

[303Guy]

... including split infinitives, misspellings, homophone errors, subject/verb agreements, dangling prepositions, dangling modifiers, using adjectives instead of adverbs ...

Ummm ..... just out of interest - I have no idea what any of that means!

But I can see that language could be quite fun to study. People with language skills can do amazing things with the written or spoken word. I wish I had a better command of the English language.

[montana_charlie]

I wish I had a better command of the English language.

Dream on. Only if you had been (like us) part of the British Empire could you have a chance at that.
Since New Zealand - and Australia - were never ...

Uhh ... oops!

[oneokie]

... including split infinitives, misspellings, homophone errors, subject/verb agreements, dangling prepositions, dangling modifiers, using adjectives instead of adverbs ...

Ummm ..... just out of interest - I have no idea what any of that means!

You aren't old enough to have experienced diagraming sentences in English class are you?