45-70 Load question

[35Whelen]

I have been handloading for my rifles for at least 25 years now. Metallic cartridge with smokeless powders.

Now I have this horrible affliction of casting boolits after I bought my first 45-70 in a Ruger No.1 , and I have acquired all the necessary goodies that go with casting. Moulds for the 45-70, 358 Win, and 35 Whelen.......and I cannot seem to stop buying moulds for them...LOL

My questions are these ....dumb as they may sound

1- I have loaded up some 405 grain flat points using 16.5 grn of Unique with a 1/2 grain puff of Poly fiber filler. I am getting about 1350 fps out of it and recoil is a pleasure to shoot all day......if I am happy with this velocity for hunting, is there any reason to switch powders? Velocity is velocity, right? Doesn't really matter what powder gets you there correct? I am thinking I can get a hockey sock ( sorry, Canadian term...meaning a lot ) load of rounds out of a 1 lb can of Unique

2. 16.5 is noted as max in the Lyman book I have, yet it shows very mild pressures of approx 38,000 CUP Can I go up from there being a Ruger No/1, if say I wanted to step up the velocity to the 1450-1500 fps range, and still be OK. Or are powders such as Unique known for building pressure very quickly?

Thanks for the assist.
Paul

[Wayne Smith]

There are three levels of published loads for the 45-70. You are looking at the Trapdoor and Marlin loads. There is another level above them for the Ruger. How much do you like your shoulder the way it is now?

Any modern loading manual will have these three levels of loading for this cartridge. If you don't have one, get one.

And yes, boolit weight and velocity are what is important, how you got that velocity may relate to how good your vision is for the second shot, but not much else at the level you are using.

Welcome to the addiction, and I do mean addiction!

[35Whelen]

Hi Wayne

Yes I can see it is an addiction. I have taken my hoarding to a new level....LOL

I have the Lyman Cast bullets handbook 3rd edition. That load is from the Ruger #1 and #3 pages. So just wondering about going up a bit and if Unique pressures jump up quickly. I watch for pressure signs on the slower powders I use in my Whelen like IMR 4064, Varget and H414 in my 7mm08 etc.......

[firefly1957]

If it is safe and accurate enough for your purpose go with it . I load a lot more powder than that under the same bullet for about 1200 feet per second not very fast but I got my biggest deer yet with it. RE-7 in a 1889 made Springfield rifle I shoot the bullets pan lubed as cast (hollow base mold) as depth of rifling is .461 the load does shoot well and about same velocity as 55grs. FG black powder. (I am not including the exact load as newer books do not go that low but it is from a Hercules pamphlet).

[Keyston44]

You can do away with the filler, Unique isn't position sensitive at all. I shoot 15 gr of Unique with a 405gr boolit for 1265 fps out of my 18.5" Guide Gun.

Key

[725]

Yeah, skip the filler. Unique doesn't require it. Should be a great hunting load.

[stubshaft]

If it aint broke don't fix it!

You have an accurate pleasant load that you like to shoot. Why change it?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Your 405 grain at 1350 fps was enough to decimate alot of Buffs over a period of 20 years. There still are no kevlar covered corn crunchers out there so you do not need any concern about not having enough power unless you can get them critters to kindly stand in rank 4 deep and want to try to bowl them all down with that one 405 grainer. I know about a large horse running at top speed that did a full face plant when struck square in the chest at 70 yards with a 405 launched from a 28" Sharps 1874. Bullet made it clean through the grill doors and skipped away across the field.
Mike in Peru

[Mike45]

IMR 4198 is supposed to be good if you want to change powders. 33gr. is I think what i used behind a 350 hndy rn for light recoil. Should be fine in the #1 with a 405 if I am remembering right.

One time i think I was close to blowing up a .303 with 85 gr. xtp behind 4 or so grains of unique. Got them to fire if I held the rifle back and got the powder in the back of the case. So I might think about switching powders.

[303carbine]

I shoot 420 grain cast at 1630 fps with 40 grains of IMR 4198 out of a 45-70 guide gun. Everything I hit with this load falls over on the spot. Some of the smaller critters seperate into a couple of flying pieces that tend to go further than any deer does.
Nothing needs to be tracked, just rounded up.

[Pioneer2]

I imagine she's all over but the gravity thing.................Harold

[Longwood]

I have hunted with everything from a 58 cal muzzle loader to a 220 Swift.
I still believe that the stopping power of a a slower moving, pure lead bullet that will mushroom immensely while imparting ALL of it's energy in the animal, is far superior to a faster hard bullet from the same gun, that only punches a small hole through the critter.

[Larry Gibson]

If it aint broke don't fix it!

You have an accurate pleasant load that you like to shoot. Why change it?

+1.

If you want to up the velocity a tudge to 145- - 1500 then I suggest switching to 4759 with the dacron filler as Unique will build the pressure fast at the top end. However, above what you are now shooting I would suggest a soft cast GC'd bullet of 300 - 400 gr for the 1500 - 1800 fps range with 4759, 4198, 5744, 3031, RL7 or 4895 with the dacron filler. Those require a little more powder (reduces the "hockey sock" amount) but the performance for hunting would be better. As mentioned though the load you have has killed an aweful lot of game. The original similar 45-70 load in the M1873 Springfield made the west safe for the Winchester M73 to win

Larry Gibson

[TXGunNut]

The 45-70 (and 45-90) got me into boolit casting after a quarter-century of wasting my time stuffing J-bullets into rifle cases. I couldn't find a decent boolit to buy but soon discovered I could cast as good as anything available out there, better than most. As you've discovered a a big, heavy boolit doesn't have to get in any hurry to get the job done. I happen to like the trapdoor loads for fun & economy and my hunting boolits seem to do just fine @ about 1700 or so.
Welcome to the affliction!

[35Whelen]

Thank you guys for all the information and confirmation of such a grand ole caliber. I have three molds now for my rifle 350- 405 and 500 grain flat points. I can hardly wait to get out and hunt with it. I have always been a big fan of big bullets at moderate velocities. The Brits got it right in the Dark Continent.

Looking forward to many years of casting and shooting.

Best regards
Paul

[TXGunNut]

and I cannot seem to stop buying moulds for them...LOL-35Whelen


I feel your pain, Brother. Only been at this a few years and have lost count already. Kinda like the leverguns at the other end of the house, they seem to be reproducing.

[azrednek]

and I cannot seem to stop buying moulds for them...LOL-35Whelen


I feel your pain, Brother. Only been at this a few years and have lost count already. Kinda like the leverguns at the other end of the house, they seem to be reproducing.

Don't worry about the addiction until you start buying molds for guns you haven't acquired yet but hope to someday.

[x101airborne]

Don't worry about the addiction until you start buying molds for guns you haven't acquired yet but hope to someday.

You mean that is a sign of addiction? Im in big trouble.

[HollowPoint]

My username is HollowPoint and I'm a Cast-Aholic.

One of us should come up with a twelve-step program for those here who've hit "Rock-Bottom" with our casting addiction.

Maybe a lead-patch we can stick on our arm under our shirt to help cut down on the craving for a new bullet mold.

I can quit any time I want to! I just don't want to quit just yet. At least not until I've put together my own 45-70-Guvmint to play with.

HollowPoint

[TXGunNut]

Don't worry about the addiction until you start buying molds for guns you haven't acquired yet but hope to someday.

Thanks, I feel a bit better. I still have a few rifles I haven't bought moulds for. Guess that makes me a bit of a slacker in this bunch.