VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabot!

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Steve, your hulls show no pressure signs, if it was me I would load another three rounds with 1/2 gr increments and keep watching the hull after each shot.
On the positive side you already have a Freight Train load ready to take on any game in North America.
Let your sixth sense do the talking, you decide ! !
Thanks for posting the pictures for us all to get the idea.

Best of luck.

Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[longbow]

Just curious why you are using a solid slug in sabot instead of full bore solid slug for that rifled barrel?

As a comment, I made a mould for Greg Sappington to his specs many years ago for use in CSD wads for rifled 12 ga. but he found that the wads were not made consistently enough to provide good enough accuracy to suit his wants. I have a few CSD wads and I can see what he means. The cup walls are quite uneven in thickness. For smoothbore not really an issue but for rifled gun that will result in off center slug in the bore so essentially unbalanced.

I'd think that Sharps would do just fine with a full bore solid with smokeless or BP.

Longbow

[appleseedgunsmith]

Perhaps it would. I have thought of it, just not wanting to entertain it right now. I did that once in 12 ga. I designed the "bronto bruiser" in the old West molds lineup, and my body has paid for it. Besides, brass cased full bore slugshells are illegal to hunt with in my home state of Ohio.(tho i don't know of any law against it here in tenn ) I originally wanted something to deer hunt with.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning its a beautiful day, we did do load testing with 20 ga Nitro Express and had used the CSD wads and in one test were amazed at the results but the Photobucked that had offered free accounts suddenly have sabotaged my files and asking $ $ $.
Here is what we were doing:


The same .575 bullet to fit the 20 and 12 ga by using the cut out from 20 ga wad and incorporating it into our 12 ga load.

We even found a far better way to cut the wad down:


I try to encourage all my friends to cook your own, no rocket science here just common sense and the willingness to put all your efforts wisely.
We had fun doing it 24/7 and not just fun but great fun.
The more you do it the better you get.

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

PS: Its mothers day, don't forget to wish your beautiful mother " Happy Mothers Day "
I wish mine was here by my side and miss her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W3xSDhxL_Q

[longbow]

If you want to keep weight down to what you have now, which is one skookum slug at 720 grs by the way, you could go with a small diameter hollow base to reduce weight some but retain bearing length.

My thought is that a full bore slug should perform well in a rifled barrel and it eliminates any issues with wads. You can load a full bore slug in plastic hulls so that shouldn't be an issue.

Another option that might work is really thick paper patching. I'd not have suggested it not long ago but one poster here says he gets good accuracy with thick PP in cartridge rifles... like 7mm patched up to .30 cal. You would need to patch to groove diameter so pretty thick patching but easy to do and try. You could simply wrap the slugs you have now with a decent bond paper to get to groove diameter then load and try. That should give you a concentric slug to bore. I'd put a plastic gas seal over the powder then nitro card wads on that to get to crimp height.

Also, with BP and plastic wads you may find that unless you use a soft lube cookie or wipe between shots the BP fouling will be hard on plastic wads. I tried BP in an old single shot 12 ga. many years ago using 0.690" RB's and got horrendous plastic fouling. Not sure if BP flame temperature or hard fouling or both were the cause but it was bad! A soft lube cookie lube helped. BP is hard on plastic hills too. Hmmmm... if you can get 20 ga. paper hulls they should work well with BP.

Interesting gun and project you've got.

Longbow

[appleseedgunsmith]

I've tried paper patching. Haven't gotten good results as of yet.

[appleseedgunsmith]

Paper Recovered on range. New bullet. I've tried wrapping/wet and also smearing with glue. No good with black powder. Should try smokeless. This one was smeared with glue and dried. They do hold rifling tho.

[appleseedgunsmith]

20 ga powder and wad compression....on 7/8-14 die!

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Bravo my friend Steve, my hats off to you and your dedication. Please keep up the good work and keep us informed so we too can learn your way of cooking ! !


Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
**--**Higher pressures lead to more consistent, cleaner burning
loads, pressure is our friend.
**--** My opinions are my own. They carry no 'special' value (except to me of course)

[longbow]

I wonder if the very thick patching is the issue? Maybe try slitting the patch from nose part way down to base in say 3 or 4 spots to make "petals" like a slit plastic wad. If it makes it into the rifling then should stay in place until the boolit leaves the muzzle. The petals should open up and help tear the patch off. I certainly wouldn't expect that thick paper patch to turn to confetti like the regular paper patching though but you do want it to separate from the boolit/slug cleanly.

What is the press you are using?

While I am not a 20 ga. guy, what you are doing is much different and pretty interesting. I'll be following your posts.

I can't see why you couldn't use that gun and cartridge in BP matches. Is there a rule on brass only cartridges or certain calibers? If you loaded brass 20 ga. shells shouldn't that be okay? For that matter paper 20 ga. hulls should be period correct for BP.

This is a little different and interesting for sure.

Longbow

[appleseedgunsmith]

The press is a rare Skinner press made by doc Tim Skinner of Skinner sights fame. This one is even more special since it had a 1 1/4" thd top plate.

[appleseedgunsmith]

Rules state American brass ctgs. of black powder era. Originally available loaded with bp. prior to 1896. Guns and ammo typical of era. No jacketed, paper patch ok.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Steve was previously working with Blue Dot


I wanted him to go ahead with A. Steel and Fed.209A primer

Finally he settled on 4227 powder on his own and far better accuracy ! !

Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
**--**Higher pressures lead to more consistent, cleaner burning
loads, pressure is indeed our friend.
**--** My opinions are my own. They carry no 'special' value (except to me of course)

[appleseedgunsmith]

I have read some things about rel-17 & aa5744 in slug loads. Gonna try that soon too. Also got shipment of hard waxed 3/8 nitro cards/filler wads. Stacking regular nitro cards 3high has not worked so well for me. Something to try anyways..

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Steve, the regular nitro cards from Circle Fly are not very well laminated, but still good for basic needs like here:

Please note I often suggest to my friends to buy nitro cards cheaply from Circle Fly, they are cheap and get the job done in wad below the RB or slug at half the price. At times we use two or three per shot and it works out just fine.


But for more tough demanding jobs you need darker nitro cards from BP at a much higher price and you actually have to ask for them, they are great and will hold out far far better in heavier demanding loads:

They are much more stiffer.

Can't wait to hear your next test, feel free to contact me any time.

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[bikerbeans]

I believe the circle fly card wads are meant for black powder. I know if you build a wad column for a heavy FB slug using 8 of them the air is full of confetti when you pull the trigger.

BB

[appleseedgunsmith]

I was told by bpi that they don't have the dark ones in 20ga x .125 ......3/8 was as close as they sell, and I was very specific in an email about what I wanted and why.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Steve the darker ones come in .170 thickness and are great to give your heavy load a solid base at launch ! !

Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[appleseedgunsmith]

Dark wads show promise. Same load without dark wads show wadcup base damage when loaded w/no crimp. These loaded with dark wads look good. I was using 3 nitros stacked together.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning I used the Circle Fly nitro cards in the wad and the base cavity to strengthen them.

A lot of times after firing the wad looks good and you could Re-use them over again.


**--** When you put a nitro card in the base cavity it flares the skirts and puts a stop to powder migration too, a serious problem for us High power Nitro Express loaders.

This is my baby High Power Nitro Express:

not a shotgun and are fed only straight walled hull loads that are meticulously handcrafted.

One hand washes the other, protect your components and give them a solid base at launch ! !
Indeed you will be rewarded back for each and every step you take to help things out.


We are indeed the " Elite Musketeer Group " of Shooters who have taken upon us to perfect our ways of cooking our loads to perfection !

Steve you too unknowingly have joined our " Elite Musketeer Group " of Shooters, now ! !
Welcome to my World.

Hoping it helps.

Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots