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Thread: VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabot!

  1. #581
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Castlegar, B.C., Canada
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    Jeremy:

    That is a nice looking gun! I have been thinking along the same lines but I really like side byes... its an affliction! However, I have also been looking at O/U's too with the same goal.

    I live in bear country and bear populations are growing. We have both black bears and grizzlies so it pays to pay attention and have at least bear spray... or better a substantial gun.

    Since double guns have been the choice of dangerous game hunters in Africa and India for many years. I have to think one would serve me well too. I think it is quite true that if a bear charged it would be unlikely a guy would get off more than two shots with a pump gun anyway and a side by or O/U is faster and no change of FTF. At close range my worst loads would be accurate enough as well. In fact two round balls would ruin pretty much any critter's day as long as I did my part anyway!

    The screw in choke tubes is a nice feature and one I wish they'd put on the Maverick. Having the ability to put on a rifled choke tube (which hopefully works) or a tight turkey choke tube for Tri-Ball loads is a really nice option. I'd think Tri-Ball loads would make excellent bear defense loads too. Maybe even better than a single ball or slug. A guy could get the Maverick reamed and tapped but it costs money and no-one locally does the work so if I got one I'd have to send it out.

    There was a short barreled side by with screw in choke tubes too... I haven't seen ads lately though. That would be my first choice.

    Longbow

  2. #582
    Greetings brother Longbow, what I feel you need is the one with one Receiver and two double over and under in 12 and 20 ga as mentioned above for $800 plus.

    Worth taking a look my friend:
    a very Unique approach for $888 12 and 20 ga combo. Mossberg Silver Reserve II Field Over/Under Shotgun 12/20 Gauge 28"/26" Barrels 3" Chamber 2 Round Capacity Walnut Stock Silver Receiver with Scroll Engraving 75442 https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/…/mo...serve-i…
    I just checked they are gone but keep looking don't give up.

    Best regards,
    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 03-22-2018 at 01:17 PM.

  3. #583
    What a difference a rifling makes:
    A. Savage rifling:
    Based on the Sabot or slug I would not be surprised if it skids too to some extend.

    B. Rifling from a Paradox gun is much deeper:

    **--** My opinions are my own, they carry no 'special' value (except to me of course)

    Best regards,
    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots

  4. #584
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Castlegar, B.C., Canada
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    I do like that Paradox rifling! That is more or less what I plan to produce with my rifled choke tube... if and when I get back to it. I'm trying! I've been rethinking how to get it all done since I don't currently have a gun tapped for choke tubes and no local source to ream and tap. Brownells has a silver solder on choke tube adapter that I will order shortly then a blank of very tight turkey choke tube I can bore then rifle... slow twist with deep wide grooves.

    If it works then my quest is over! If not then I guess I have to go fully rifled gun. I do like smoothbores though. To each his own!

    Longbow

  5. #585
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    Montreal
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    131
    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    I do like that Paradox rifling! That is more or less what I plan to produce with my rifled choke tube... if and when I get back to it. I'm trying! I've been rethinking how to get it all done since I don't currently have a gun tapped for choke tubes and no local source to ream and tap. Brownells has a silver solder on choke tube adapter that I will order shortly then a blank of very tight turkey choke tube I can bore then rifle... slow twist with deep wide grooves.

    If it works then my quest is over! If not then I guess I have to go fully rifled gun. I do like smoothbores though. To each his own!

    Longbow
    Longbow how about an Italian side by side slug gun with one barrel smoothbore and the other with paradox rifling?

    http://www.rfmarmi.it/prodotto.php?idp=8

    There is one for sale in Canada ... I believe ... but it is listed for CAD $2500.- ....

  6. #586
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Castlegar, B.C., Canada
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    Yeah... that's a little more than my budget will bear! Maybe not a bad price for the gun but... I won't be buying one any time soon. Way better price than an H&H Paradox gun though! I'd have to sell my house to buy one of those!

    I've been looking at both the Remington and Mossberg slug guns and pondering. Maybe in a bit. They are closer to my toy budget anyway.

    Longbow

  7. #587
    Brother Longbow, there is a time for everything in our life, when your time comes you will have your dream gun, A Nitro Express.

    I was very fond of PC OP wad in 12 ga. they were tight so I helped myself by flaring up the hull with a plier and half a twist:
    We do anything and everything to help ourselves, don't we:

    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 03-24-2018 at 01:54 PM.

  8. #588
    Thanks longbow. I still owe away and od barrel measurement. Tried a handful of buckshot chokes. Including Carlson coyote and xxf ported turkey choke. All the way down to improved cylinder. Turns out plain modified gives the best pattern. However the carlsons coyote gave much better patterns when installed on my 870. No slugs fired yet.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBlazingSabots View Post
    Brother Longbow, there is a time for everything in our life, when your time comes you will have your dream gun, A Nitro Express.

    I was very fond of PC OP wad in 12 ga. they were tight so I helped myself by flaring up the hull with a plier and half a twist:
    We do anything and everything to help ourselves, don't we:

    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    I recently picked up one of the "Ultimate Primer Punches" from Creative Reloading Solutions and while I never experienced what he refers to as "Crash" I do find I like the primer pocket swagging and the adjustable mouth flaring. When trying to get more life from some once fired Fiocchi hulls I ran them past a homemade hull re conditioner to open them up a bit from a roll crimp and then when they hit that UPP in the press they really open up and the wads slide right in. For a $35 part I was quite impressed and while I never really noticed any issues prior to owning one, I certainly can tell a difference now that I have one. Great little item that your linesman reaming reminded me of.

    Kraken Fan #69

  10. #590
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Montreal
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBlazingSabots View Post
    Greetings Faustus, Its right before 11500 psi and knowing the hulls weakness helps us gauge the pressure far better.
    The Federal hull are made so strong that you will end up seeing no pressure sign until its could be too high.
    The good side is once you have your load testing done with the Fiocchi hulls by switching to Federal hulls you are ready for the hunt.
    Better to work with a known devil than an unknown devil ! !
    Ajay, just wondering what Fiocchi hulls you have tested this with? Or does this apply to any Fiocchi hull?

    Also, when you switch to the Federal hulls did you use those with a Fiocchi 616 primer or the Federal 209A one. It is my understanding that the Federal 209A is much hotter than the Fiocchi one ... so, switching to a hotter primer would increase pressure .... right??
    Last edited by faustus; 04-01-2018 at 09:13 AM.

  11. #591
    Greetings Faustus, I normally used the Fiocchi clear 16mm hulls for 12 ga, I would buy them when on sale.
    I always suggested to my friends to use newer hulls for load developing purposes. Re use the hulls for Buckshot etc.
    When starting our a newer load I would start with Federal 209A primer with certain powders and they fit very nicely.
    The Fiocchi 616 is good for Unique, Bullseye powder etc.

    The Federal hulls are the best when hunting Deer, Black Bear or Hogs and don't want no issues, just want to hunt.
    Fiocchi hulls are great for load development and you can hunt with them but remember they tend to show pressure signs ! !
    Lets say you are developing a hunting load and its good but starting to show pressure signs with Fiocchi hulls.
    By switching to Federal hulls you will notice no pressure sign and smoother action.

    Had to use the cleaning rod to push the hulls out, the load was too hot for Fiocchi hulls and the gun they were used in and not suitable to dangerous game hunting.( By backing off 1 1/2 gr charge should be ok with this combo.)
    Here are the 20 ga

    I found the Fiocchi brown and green 12 ga hulls a tiny bit stronger but not by much.

    The 20 ga hulls tend to cave-in and need support while loading at the final fold crimp stage, not all loaders give full enth support.

    Once buckled I would press them like this:


    We have very strict rules of loading, Anything and everything goes ! !
    Isn't that nice.
    I simply love the 20 ga babies, they look so fine, give support to the wad like this and then load them hotter ! !

    The wads will look like new after firing:
    What a mouth watering recipe, heavy bullet


    They can't make 20 ga 3 1/2 chamber as the longer hulls can't take on the final crimping pressure unless the loader provides full support.
    Never mind the 3 inch is Great.
    **--** I did all my load testing 24/7 and was then lucky enough that I did not have to worry about paying my bill, today things are different and face tough challenges to survive as a retired person. ( Down but not out )

    Hoping it helps.

    Best regards,
    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-02-2018 at 11:44 AM.

  12. #592
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Montreal
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    131
    Thanks Ajay ... yes that helps a lot.

    I have a bag of new primed Fiocchi 16mm green hulls

    http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fio...tinfo/0641230/


    And I also have 2 bags of new primed Federal hulls ...

    http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fed...tinfo/0621230/

    If I understand you right you developed your load with the Fiocchi hulls primed with a Federal 209A primer. And that would make sense ... switching out the hulls (and not the primers) only will not cause any difference in pressure ...

    I think I will follow in your trail ... I will test my long range buckshot load in the Fiocchi hulls.

    Ajay, thanks for sharing all that valuable information ... and for blazing the trail. Much appreciated.

  13. #593
    Boolit Master

    Hogtamer's Avatar
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    East central GA, Appling near Augusta
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    Well faustus, since you have the Fed hulls, here is my best buckshot load of literally dozens I've tried, including factory. Detailed loading info and pics. HARD shot is mandatory.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hot-PERFECTION!
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  14. #594
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Montreal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    Well faustus, since you have the Fed hulls, here is my best buckshot load of literally dozens I've tried, including factory. Detailed loading info and pics. HARD shot is mandatory.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hot-PERFECTION!
    Hogtamer, thanks for sharing ... much appreciated.

    And very nice!! I like it!! You are the man of perfection!!

    If I can come up with a load that shoots a pattern like this from an IC barrel, then I will be more than happy .... we will see ...

  15. #595
    For my Elite group of Nitro Express slug shooters here is a treat for 20 ga nitro Express .575 RB loads starter loads for rifled barrels:

    1. 17 to 19 gr Bullseye and 19 gr will give about 1420 fps give or take a few fps based on your crimp!

    2. 20 to 22 gr Unique and 22 gr will give about 1430 fps give or take a few fps based on your crimp!

    3. 26 to 28 7625 and 28 gr will give you about 1527 fps give or take a few fps based on your crimp!

    4. 27 to 29.5 gr Herco and 29.5 gr will give you about 1546 fps give or take a few fps based on your crimp!
    Mind you, the above loads are good hunting loads, very accurate!

    **--** My .44 Remington Magnum Ruger Super Red hawk with 7.5 inch barrels can only shoot a 300 gr bullet at 1113 fps
    for Universal to 1325 fps with H110, compare it to the above loads that are basic hunting loads in 20 gauge, our
    20 gauge has turned into a Big Bore Nitro Express beating the old British Paradox guns left and right in the hands
    of a good shooter.

    “Successful people are always looking for opportunities to help others.
    Unsuccessful people are always asking,
    'What's in it for me?'”
    Get jealous and cry like a baby and have nothing to offer ! !

    "Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
    - Mahatma Gandhi

    " A happy man is one who loads his own slugs and burn's powder at the range" - Super Blazing Sabots!

    "An inventor fails 999 times, and if he succeeds once, he's in.
    I'll let you know when I'm in!
    He treats his failures simply as practice shots. ~ Charles F. Kettering

    BRI slug
    Hastings Lazer slug



    Very important you learn to read pressure signs:

    Here the primers are not flattened to show pressure sign.

    Watch the hull on the right, gases pass by the primer.

    Watch the big ammo makers putting the shooters at risk with much higher pressure loads, racing with the devil trying to be No. 1.
    Take a good look at the primers:


    Best regards,
    Ajay
    SuperBlazingSabots,com
    BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
    http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
    http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
    http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
    http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
    -Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
    We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
    Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK
    -Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
    We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-16-2018 at 04:57 PM.

  16. #596
    Boolit Buddy hatcreek's Avatar
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    wisconsin
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    Your the best Ajay, thanks for all your hard work and info, the .575 round ball load is my go to hunting round, very accurate and deadly on whitetails in Wisconsin, I prefer blue dot, but going to try sr7625, and herco, also have a few pounds of Hi Skor 800x would like to give that a shot, ha ha no pun intended, thanks again for all your hard work. Regards HC

  17. #597
    Good morning my brother Hatcreek, I'm glad to see you around and happy that things are working out for you.
    You made me feel good, thanks for the kind words.

    I'm sure my other Elite Musketeer brothers are wondering what's your load, please help by mentioning it.


    Here are the powders that did exceptionally well in our 20 ga .575 RB loads:
    A. Longshot
    B. 4756
    C. Universal
    D. Blue Dot
    E. Herco
    F. HS 6
    G. WSF
    H. 7625
    I. Bullseye
    J. Unique
    Alliant Steel was good for hunting but did not shine as the 4756 or Longshot due to RB being only 285 gr.

    Just look at the possibilities with this " Wonder Wad as tho it wad just made for us, Nitro Express Big Game Loaders "


    I don't like to start a newer thread so I will continue on till the forum stops me from posting any more pictures, the limit is 10 pictures.
    Now the loads below are for Modern Rifled barrel Nitro Express guns only.
    Yet another very tempting 20 ga Nitro Express Heavy Hunting load is the:

    We had developed a lot of respect for these Freight Train loads good for Big Game right here in US:

    Remember none of the shotshell components are custom designed for us Nitro Express Hunting loads so we need to help support our components every which way so please follow the picture directions carefully ! !

    Here is a not so heavy but still very deadly load:


    **--**Back to heavier load for Moose, Bear or even Elk:



    These are the results of my Elite Musketeer Group of friends motivation right here, but some of them have disappeared and I miss them for their support and friendship. Don't be afraid come back and out in the open.
    We are true Patriots and fight for our rights.

    Best regards,
    Ajay
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-19-2018 at 10:24 AM.

  18. #598
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
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    Castlegar, B.C., Canada
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    Ajay:

    Just looking at your 0.575 RB's in shotcups. Those look good! Does that wad stay attached? Just curious.

    I've put together some 0.662 RB's in CSD steel shot wads (12 ga.) and they are a perfect fit. Not sure why I didn't try this before as Greg Sappington told me about an article he'd read about using 0.662" RB's in steel shot wads in a rifled gun and the wad stayed attached. Apparently velocities were high and accuracy good.

    Mine weigh a bit under 1 oz. in range scrap. I cut the unslit CSD wad down to suit a ball on top of two 1/8" nitro card wads. It is a nice package and easy to make. If it works out for my smoothbore I think I will order a couple of bags of CSD wads and forget glue skirts.

    It turns out that one of my slugs from home made mould also fits perfectly in those CSD wads. It is a TC design with bore diameter nose and solid reduced shank and looks like a mini Hammerhead slug in that wad!

    Greg also told me that a slug he designed and mould I made for him for discarding wad in rifled gun worked well in the CSD wad (unslit). I tried a few of those but left the cut full depth and used about 4 nitro card wads. They flew head on but I can't recall if accuracy was good (so probably not).

    I cast up and saved a few of those slugs then sent the mould. Greg sent me some of his slugs and a handful of CSD wads I had forgotten I had. Time to try them.

    Anyway, your 20 ga. wad slugs with .575" RB's look very similar so I'm wondering if the wad stays with the ball and how they shoot?

    I've got an archery shoot this weekend so no slug shooting for me for at least a week but I'll get them loaded and tried shortly. Range report to come!

    Longbow

  19. #599
    Hello brother Longbow, here we did the test with 4 nitro cards in CSD wad:

    Here we used 20 ga CSD on the bullet and put it in the 12 ga wad:



    12 ga here and use glue to turn it into one piece:



    The 20 ga Nitro Express .575 RB loads the RB moves on without the wad but as I have suggested to add a drop of glue to turn it into one piece non discarding slug.
    Hope it helps.
    Best regards,
    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots

  20. #600
    Boolit Grand Master

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    How was accuracy with those 0.678" RB's in the non-discarding sabot? I have a soft spot for large round balls!

    Longbow

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check