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Thread: VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabot!

  1. #681
    Boolit Master

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    Ajay:

    You are really hardcore selling 20 ga.! I must say though a Condor 20 ga. With 22" barrels could be appealing!

    I'll probably be stubborn and stick to 12 ga. "Just 'cause!"

    We'll see what happens when I can buy a new toy... which might be a used toy (new to me).

    Still got slugs to load up and test then decisions to make.

    You give me food for thought!

    Longbow

  2. #682
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    I must older and more decrepit than Ajay and LB, I am going to hunt with a 410 slug gun this year.

    BB

  3. #683
    Boolit Master

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    If you are going to hunt with a scaled down gun I hope you are hunting scaled down hogs! Not sure that even a hot .410 has enough poop for one of the big boys! Maybe if you follow in Ed Hubel's footsteps! Lots of slow powder.

    Mind you with appropriate loading I'd think .410 could be in the .44 mag ballpark for velocity and payload.

    You might be okay after all.

    I am pretty old and decrepit myself but I'll keep my 12 ga. I might load it down some but I do like the 12 ga.

    Different strokes!

    Longbow

  4. #684
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    LB,

    410 is for deer only. I have never seen a feral hog in ohio.

    My 410 is launching a 260g LWNFB boolit in the 1500 to 1800 fps range. I hope to have load workup finished in August.

    BB

  5. #685
    BikerBeans, welcome aboard, good to see you my friend. I remember your words from the past " Do let us know so we don't commit the sin too "
    I often use your words in our political fight that some of the freedom fighters are fighting.
    Your .410 is indeed a hard hitter can't wait to hear your load. I don't personally have a .410 but a lot of friends will be happy to hear about your load.
    Biker Beans .410 is launching a 260g LWNFB boolit in the 1500 to 1800 fps range. Bravo my friend

    To all my friends who visit here are some great deals, even tho money is hard to come-by, times sure have changed.
    I let me warn you, prepare for your Golden years and the Government is upto no good far too busy stealing from our SS funds, then they have the nerve to tell us SS is broke ! !
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    Right now AT&T symbol " T " ( Ma Bell phone company ) is about to come up after some bad reports and gives $2 per share in dividends and the price soon will go up.
    Not only your principal will rise you get the dividends, I could not survive without my dividends.
    Last time I warned you was when I told you to buy as much Powder you feel you will need for the next few years and sure the powder became scarce and prices went up, the store shelves were empty No powder or even bullets, remember.

    Here is a great deal for $280 ATA NEO 12GA 28 INCH BLACK SYNTHETIC INERTIA EAA, nice looking too.
    https://www.cdnnsports.com/ata-neo-1...e#.W2HRQ9JKiM8

    For $120 a pump action HAWK 981 PUMP 12 GAUGE 26 INCH
    https://www.cdnnsports.com/hawk-981-...U#.W2HWU9JKiM8

    Don't see too many 3.5 inch versions, I personally have none.
    For $300 3.5" MAGNUM
    REMINGTON 887 NITRO MAGNUM 12 GAUGE 22, looks good for you my friend.
    https://www.cdnnsports.com/remington...U#.W2HXX9JKiM8

    Here are some great rifle deals including my favorite Browning A Bold III for $350
    Ruger for $300 and Winchester XPR for $290
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    I hope the information help some of you.

    Best regards,
    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 09-19-2018 at 03:56 PM.

  6. #686
    Boolit Master

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    Yeah, that should do for deer! That is a substantial .410 load.

    I am guessing the gun is rifled? Are you using plastic .410 hulls or brass?

    Makes me wonder why factory .410 slugs are so light when birdshot payloads are much heavier. The .410 is a nice little gun and heavier slug would make it much more useful... as you are doing.

  7. #687
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Yeah, that should do for deer! That is a substantial .410 load.

    I am guessing the gun is rifled? Are you using plastic .410 hulls or brass?

    Makes me wonder why factory .410 slugs are so light when birdshot payloads are much heavier. The .410 is a nice little gun and heavier slug would make it much more useful... as you are doing.
    LB,

    1:22 twist, 5-groove from JES.

    A heavier foster slug for 410 would be fairly long and probably not stable from a smoothbore.

    I am using metal/plastic hulls. The walls on magtech brass hulls are way to thin to work with a 41 cal boolit.

    BB

  8. #688
    Boolit Master

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    Not your average .410!

    I think I saw a previous thread or post on you getting this gun put together now that I think back.

    I'd bet a Brenneke style slug could be much heavier than the standard .410 slugs and work well... but it certainly wouldn't out shoot your rifled gun!

    So, enlighten me if you will. you are in Ohio right? Ohio has cartridge restrictions in place still? If memory serves I've heard mention of straight case and limited length?

    Does this rifled .410 count as a rifle with straight case or a shotgun? Wouldn't standard hulls be longer than allowable if considered a rifle? But if using shotgun hulls it should be a shotgun. Is any of that a concern? Just curious.

    I'll have to look back and see if there are pics of this gun.

    Longbow

  9. #689
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    LB,

    I deem it a shotgun but if you found all brass hulls that would work with 41 cal bullet it would be legal for ohio deer as a rifle. Ohio deer regs now allow any length, non-bottleneck cartridge with a 35 cal up to 50 cal projectile. So dust off your 50-140 and I will put you on a good spot for opening day!

    The funny part of these regs is it is still illegal in Ohio to use all metal hulls in a shotgun to hunt deer.

    BB

  10. #690
    Boolit Master

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    You mean funny strange not funny ha ha I'm guessing.

    Yes, it seems odd to me for sure. I understand that these regulations are put in effect because of population and range of firearms but I suspect a 50-140 or 45-120 would shoot far enough to be a concern. Surely cartridges like .30-30 and .35 Remington should be legal on that basis. However, bureaucrats making rules don't have to make sense. They get paid the same whether rules make sense or not.

    Not sure why the cartridge should determine the legality of shooting the gun with respect to brass shotgun hulls. Seems to me that when rifled barrels became common for shotguns there was some issue about the rifled guns over .50 cal. but since they were designed to shoot shotgun shells they were deemed okay. So, it shouldn't matter what the cartridge is made of.

    We have a different situation here, Shotgun slugs can only be used for hunting animals up to deer and bear. Not for elk or moose. So a smoothbore muzzleloader of .62 cal. shooting a round ball is okay but a Dixie terminator from a rifled 12 ga. isn't allowed for anything larger than deer and black bear. Like I said, they get paid the same whether the rules make sense or not.

    Go figure!

    Anyway, looks like you have a novel and substantial ".410" to hunt with.

    Longbow

  11. #691
    Boolit Master
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    The reason for shotgun only states, which Minnesota is, was actually for "sporting" purposes, nothing about safety. The only season it affects is regular firearms whitetail deer. Ohio at least gets the option of rifles, Minnesota is one of the last states that still hold on to their shotgun zone. Admittedly the northern half of the state allows rifles of just about any caliber or configuration. Much of southern Minnesota is open farm fields, where a guy with a rifle could/would be shooting hundreds of yards. The idea of the shotgun zone was to give the deer a chance. I think we are many decades since that made sense. Most of the orange army couldn't hit a deer at 200 yards with a rifle capable of 1/2 MOA anyway. I've never hunted an open area like that, but it must be a trip. There are deer stands in the dead center of huge farm fields. I don't really see the point of a deer stand at that point, maybe before harvest. When you can see 5 miles to the next patch of trees, and no deer between, you might as well go in, the deer wont be there until after lunch. At least the Dakota's have grass for deer to hide in. I hunt in the shotgun area, but it's nothing like the southern or far western part of the state. I've never had a shot opportunity past 60 yards yet. Minnesota is very populated, maybe not in shear number, but there is a house every 100 yards. I only know of a few places in the state you can get a mile or more away from people. Because of this, deer will hide in the thickest, nasty stuff. I love hunting swamps. Nothing wrong with slugs, but there are plenty of times buckshot would be a big advantage. Unfortunately it's not legal here, for the same reason's you can't use slugs on big game there. Some wingnut would try and use surplus 4 buck, and just spray and pray well out of range.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 08-02-2018 at 09:21 PM.

  12. #692
    Absolutely no Hazmat fee when ordering Alliant powder for $125 or more, stock up for tomorrow.
    https://www.facebook.com/MidsouthSho...type=3&theater

    Hello Longbow:
    https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod...10633015180.do

    https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...w%2FScope+Base

    Here is my TC Pro hunter set up with 28 inch rifled barrel in 12 gauge above measuring 1 inch at the muzzle
    and below a 28 inch 20 gauge rifled barrel measuring .880 at the muzzle. I think this is the very best single shot setup.
    Could easily buy a .500 S&W Magnum barrel for it or 45-70 for $325 to 400 and just switch the barrels.
    Mine never ever misfired during all my test that I did with it.


    Here is my Dream gun, a Mossberg 12 and 20 gauge for around $860 No I don't own one but wish I did.


    Talking of Mossberg a very handy over and under, looks great for around $400 to 500.
    I would put on a longer 8 inch rifled choke on it.
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 09-20-2018 at 11:04 AM.

  13. #693
    Boolit Master

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    I've been pondering some of the lower cost guns for knock around use but they are lower cost for a reason. For a bear gun I want something that will go bang at least twice when I need it to. No jamming, no feeding problems, not sensitive to dirt, etc. That is one of the appeals of the double barrel gun either side by or over/under. Was thinking about a Stoeger coach gun and may still consider one but I was reading more than one comment about light firing pin strikes so failure to fire. That wouldn't be good with a nasty bear charging or even threatening to charge. Easy enough to check that firing pins are making deep enough dents in primers and possibly rectifying it if they aren't but still...

    Yes, I like that H&R in .44 mag. and 12 ga. slug other than it doesn't look like a heavy slug barrel but they are not available anymore and even if Bud's had one they won't likely export it for me.

    Nothing is ever easy! Even when it should be!

    Longbow

  14. #694
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    I have some Federal .410 slugs that are 125 gr and running 1775 fps!

    That is above most .357 Magnum loads.

    I also have a bunch of Thug Slugs I got from BPI that are 125 gr with attached wads so they should be relatively accurate. I have a bunch of .444 Marlin brass cases I'd load those into.

    I think these would be superior to a revolver for most shooters, as most shooters don't really have the skill to take a game animal with a Revolver.

    A small .410 shotgun, (Mine is an M6 Scout) would be preferable.

    My .02

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  15. #695
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Longbow. I've been looking over the possibles since this thread started and I think you might have a good idea for your bear gun. The double barrel makes sense to me. Maybe a cut down version like the popular 12ga pump guns for home defense only an over-under on a good sling. As quick as a bear charges you'll likely not get off more than the two shots after you're sure the charge isn't a bluff. Good quick heavy buckshot, slug double should settle the matter. Gp

  16. #696
    Boolit Master
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    My wife has a 20-year-old Stoeger 20 ga hammerless coach gun that she shot hundreds of rounds through in over 10 years of a couple SASS cowboy shoots per month with no light strikes. Last year just for the heck of it I bought a set of the aperture rear, fiber optic front turkey sights that clamp to the barrel rib. Got them at Wally World after season at closeout prices. At 25 yards the gun puts 3" slugs two inches apart to the point of aim. Just dumb luck, I know, but I'd sure like to find a 12 ga that shoots just like it. GF

  17. #697
    Have fun comparing the very best:

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    Best Slug Guns: OL Picks the 15 Best Shotguns for Deer Hunting
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    5 Best Slug Gun Options Ready For Deer Season | Gun Digest
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  18. #698
    Boolit Master

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    Gray Fox:

    I have been leaning toward the Stoeger 12 ga. Supreme Coachgun if I go new. If I can find a decent used Stoeger coachgun or full length (I can cut barrels down to 20") I'd likely buy it and try it. They aren't too pricey. I like side by's but an over/under should be just as effective for the purpose. Having read about light firing pin strikes I'd be checking that ti make sure I was getting dependable ignition. There's not much to go wrong with or worry about on a double barrel gun... no feeding issues and little in the way of things to jam, break or get out of adjustment.

    Longbow

  19. #699
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    I took a Stevens 311 and cut the barrels off to 20" with the intention of building a double rifle style gun. The gun came out looking good but it didn't shoot very well and the Stevens design has some major design flaws that make it difficult to open after firing. It doesn't retract the firing pins until the barrels are open about an inch or so.

    That gun shot about 18" apart at 50 yards so I sold it.

    After working on two of those guns I came to the conclusion they are as close to pure junk as anyone ever produced. No attention to internal detail whatsoever. No deburring of any of the internal parts and made as cheaply as possible. Took hours to detail everything and even then it wasn't all that. Nothing there to work with!

    Plenty of other S by S Shotguns out there and I'm sure most of them are regulated much better than the Stevens and certainly better quality.

    The Stoeger Hammerless Coach gun looks promising.

    HOWEVER!!! Going to a Defensive Shotgun Class and really learning how to run a pump action shotgun will reveal that you can fire two, 3 or four, 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 shots, almost as fast as a Semi Auto can be shot. I can routinely clear a plate rack with 6 targets in 6-7 seconds with my M500. Just did it again 3 weeks ago. Once you learn to "ride the recoil," you are on your way to faster follow up shots.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check