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Thread: VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabot!

  1. #1

    Smile VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabot!

    Greetings friends, as you are aware by now that we have been busy trying to develop our line of "Super Blazing Sabot"
    Please keep in mind, each sabot is designed for a specific bullet / sabot combination, since the bullet style also seemed to affect the minimum velocity required for instant separation, we are choosing bullet designs that will help!
    I'm leaning towards powders that will not occupy too much hull space

    to give us enough hull space for proper wad column and to give the sabot a solid firm base that I have always talked about!
    Bullets must be seated at the bottom of the sabot, any air space at the bottom of the sabot will allow perforation of the sabot base.
    Since we do not want you to deviate from our loading data, we will provide the bullet mold # and the manufacturer of the mold along with the necessary accessories ( Over powder wad, nitro cards, sabot and the loading data etc ) required by the hand-loader to complete the loaded sabot, all you need to have is powder, hull and means to load the shell with 6 point fold crimp!

    Even tho this is my favorite bullet

    I cant use it as the bullet mold along with a handle will cost around a $100 and the mold needs modification of another $15 to 20 in order to fit the sabot.

    We have chosen bullet molds that are equally good and you as a hand-loader can buy the mold for no more than $19.
    1. Our "Hog Buster Sabot A" will be for heavy bullet and for dangerous game like hog, bear or elk!
    2. Our "Deer Buster Sabot B" will be for a lighter, faster bullet with flatter trajectory for longer range!
    Our Sabot will be of SL version, where the bullet will be totally enclosed by the sabot and the bullet will not be protruding from the shell for safety.
    Most commercial sabot loads are tested from a 30 inch barrel to impress you with a higher velocity, but give no way near the advertised velocity from a average hunter's 24 inch rifled barrel, all our testing is being done with a regular off the counter guns.
    The main problem the re-loader faces when loading sabots is the lack of good loading data and not having all the required components to complete the load as designed. We intend to provide all components in the package.
    1. To get reliable bullet-sabot separation we had to re-design the sabot from ground-up, to counter-act poor separation and improve accuracy.

    With all your Support and Good Wishes I intend to Complete this Project in the Near Future!

    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Super Blazing Sabot!
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 06-12-2018 at 08:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master jmsj's Avatar
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    Ajay,
    These look great.
    I have a couple of quick questions. Are these intended only for rifled barrels or are designed for smoothbore use also?
    The $19.00 mold, I would imagine this is a Lee product, if so which mold is it.
    I wish you good luck and look foward to your updates on this product.
    jmsj

  3. #3
    Hllo Jmsj, they will work in smooth bore too because we are using a hollow base bullet for that purpose, but will give longer range accuracy from a fully rifled barrel or a 8 inch rifled barrel choke tube!
    http://www.kebcollc.com/cart/store.p...on=show_detail
    be sure to grab them before the stock is finished!
    The lighter buller loads will be known as Deer Buster!


    Like Ed said, we can easily alter the bullet weight or design and at the cost of only $ 1 to 1.50 by buying additional hollow base pins and altering them as shown here from another thread!

    and finally here is a project for Ed Hubel to look into

    I just get scared just looking at this LL - long load with the longer bullet protruding!
    You can see these were made on an experimental basis on a lathe machine!

    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabot!
    http://www.PreciousVideoMemories.com
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-08-2012 at 06:16 PM.

  4. #4
    Greetings, We spent a good part of the day at the range trying to blow up sabots and see which combo wads etc give better support to the sabot.

    The hull too can cause problems if its brass head is too soft, the hulls were bulging and showing extractor marks etc and would not extract from my Savage F210

    Next I want to try Fed. GM hulls, hopefully they are much stronger and that in return will let me load much hotter loads without any extraction problems!

    Even tho we had taken our camera's and Chrono, we failed to take any pictures. Next time!
    After firing quite some heavy loads suddenly the groups opened up, only to find the scope got loose. A lot more testing yet to do and we will update you soon.
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Blazing sabots!
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

  5. #5
    Cast Hunter




    RugerFan's Avatar
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    Very interesting

  6. #6
    Good morning, here is an update from yesterday's visit to the range.

    the first hull on left was a 3inch 12 ga. Fiocchi hull, marked 5, loaded with 44 grains of A. Steel and a 450 grain bullet, the primers were Fio. 616 and not a magnum primer as needed by Steel but yet it gave a little over 1700 fps.

    The trigger on the Savage F210 was something for Savage to be ashamed off!
    Since we left for the range right after leaving the machine shop, we did not have our Remington 1100M with a modefied trigger, another reason being we had heavier loads with us to try that would not have been safer in a thinner rifled barrel of .870" of my Remington, where as the Savage barrel at muzzle measures .910"!

    Next we tried 37 grains of Longshot with 360 grain bullet and gave it a .170 darker nitro card below sabot for support and atop the X12X OP wad, this is the same X12X wad that Winchester uses in their sabot loads!
    We had extraction problems and that's a No No! We had loads with 38 gr, 39 gr and 40 grains
    ready to try but had to stop at 37 grains, the culprit is the hull brass not being strong enough as you can see in the picture above, the primers look ok!

    Next load was also 37 grains of Longshot but this time with a modified bullet of 380 grains and Powder cup with .125-20 ga nitro in it and topped with a .170 darker nitro card.
    Extraction was better here with a tiny extraction mark!

    Next load was the same as above but this time with 320 grain bullet and no problems,
    need to further test the last two loads!

    It was a good learning experiance and I feel the weaker link here was the hull, I should have done all my test in a Fed. GM hulls instead, none the less I had fun and no regrets and better luck next time!
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 02-19-2013 at 07:00 AM.

  7. #7
    Greetings,

    Lyman 525 load that had powder seeping through the wad and when fired:

    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-11-2012 at 01:51 PM.

  8. #8
    Good morning, I had to make 4 to 6 attempts to try to eject the hull and most of the time it came out by straight bolt pull, without turning!

    The point of this project is to give hand-loaders the same velocity as the commerciallly available slugs,
    we intended to design the load in a specific way along with simple pictures, step by step instructions, so even a kid can put it together, with all the components included, except the hull, powder, primer and the loading machine!

    The hulls causing a bit of a set-back, then there are other challenges to cope up with, one problem at a time.

    I intend to be back soon on the range to do more testing and burn up a lot more powder!!!
    Its fun time experimenting.
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

  9. #9
    Greetings, if you were to carefully look at my Fiocchi hull picture above, you'll notice the primers are not even flattened but the head has extraction marks.

    this is a flattened primer.

    We did shoot a variety of slugs including BLS-12, RSS-12 Win. XP3,Win. Dual Bond, Rem. Accutip.
    Most sabots were found around 40 to 60 yard mark, where as they should have been around 20 yard
    from the bench. Majority of Rem. and Win sabots were not fully opened, not even 3/4 open but yet
    the BLS 12 and RSS 12 were 3/4 open and guess what the BLS 12 were at 20 to 25 yard mark. We even found a few RSS 12 at 100 yard mark. but that is because I choose to fire them un-altered and was not surprised at that.
    I have to go to the tool and die maker.
    We gathered a lot of information and luckily we had the whole range to ourselves and after each shot we picked up the sabots and checked for problems and made notes.
    Its was fun experimenting.
    I worked at J.P.Sauer & Sons in West Germany and had a chance to deal with Mr. Roy Weatherby and later with his son Ed. Had my own Sporting goods store in late 80'ies in Long Island, NY.
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

  10. #10
    Greetings, I'm back, if you were to look at your sabots that you fired, you will notice the Rem. Accu Tips after firing are not open but the Winchester ones will open up at times.

    When loaded right and not too hot the BLS 12 will open up and drop with-in 15 to 25 yards.

    The RSS 12 will open only after alteration and will drop between 25 to 50 yards while if used as is will be found at 100 yards mark, since our test were to blow the sabot with different loads and wads, we did manage to do so.

    I belong to the Deer and bear hunters camp, using over the counter regular guns, let me ask you,
    what velocity will you be content with under normal hunting conditions that you encounter with a 24 inch rifled barrel!
    1. 300 grain bullet. A 1700fps, B 1750fps, C 1800fps, D 1850fps, E 1900fps.
    2. 320 grain bullet. A 1700fps, B 1750fps, C 1800fps, D 1850fps, E 1900fps.
    3. 360 grain bullet. A 1700fps, B 1750fps, C 1800fps, D 1850fps, E 1900fps.
    4. 400 grain bullet. A 1700fps, B 1750fps, C 1800fps, D 1850fps, E 1900fps.
    5. 450/460 grain bullet. A 1700fps, B 1750fps, C 1800fps, D 1850fps, E 1900fps.
    A bit on the heavy side for faster velocity!
    6. 500 grain bullet. A 1700fps, B 1750fps, C 1800fps, D 1850fps, E 1900fps.
    On the heavy side for faster velocity!
    This feed back will help, provided you are from this hunting camp and not looking to impress others
    while hurting your own shoulder! Our purpose is not to kill on both ends.
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

  11. #11
    Hello friends, here is an update, as a lot of data was collected while shooting that we are logging in and

    results were amazing and pointing to certain type of loads that worked while others that failed!

    I'm still waiting for your feedback from the above post as to what velocity you would be contend with from a 24 inch rifled barrel, from a off the counter regular gun ( with barrel thickness at muzzle of lets say a thin .845" to .900" )

    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


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    As fast as they will go without blowing a group or dangerous in the summer heat is what I would want.

  13. #13

    and a close up of the Accu Tip wads



    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-23-2012 at 04:54 PM.

  14. #14
    Please participate with your feedback right here on this post as it will help me a great deal and not through PM!
    Thank you.
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    If you can get these to group as good or better than factory at factory speeds, you are going to sell out fast. I have used the Lyman and Lee slugs an never could get them to go very fast. The Lymans were easy to get to group, not so for the Lee. I know part of the problem was wad seperation from the slug.

    Are the sabots you have scored on the petals by the base? I think this would help to get faster seperation from the slug. I see they are tearing, thats why I ask.

  16. #16
    Testing is still going on the Blazing Sabots, in the mean time here is how I load my .690 RB for my smooth bore barrel.
    The round ball fits nicely in the cup of the Light Brush 12 wad. I'll let the picture do the talking

    put the RB with spruce facing down, the nitro cards will help provide a firm base.

    Please try it and if by any chance its helpful do write about your experiances!
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 06-20-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  17. #17
    Greetings, we were at the range today testing different sabots and the effect of different wads etc, all was going as planned when suddenly on a normal load of 23.6 gr of H.Clays
    behind a 440 gr bullet in sabot the bolt jammed right after firing

    we had to stop the test and come back and still can't open the bolt inspite of using WD-40
    from both sides! I do not want to break the bolt! Any words of wisdom how would you tackle this situation?
    The load chronographed at 1378fps
    Monday I'll have to continue further testing with Rem. 1100 with a rifled barrel.
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-27-2012 at 07:35 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    A few thoughts for you. I've been working with my NEF 20ga USH, BRI Multihulls, AA 2495 powder and 550 thru 668 gr 0.625" bullets. With any pressure over about 14.5KPSI the hull obturates into the ejector slot cutout and sticks in the chamber...DOESN'T MATTER WHAT POWDER I use. Using RMC brass cases I could go to 20KPSI and higher without ANY pressure or case sticking. I ordered a batch of Fiocci cases to try to see if the brass base will handle a bit more pressure.

    AA2495 is what QL shows to be the best for the total pressure/velo and also for the pressure/time curve....the AA runs from .8 to 1.0ms to max pressure/bullet travel time while the other shotgun powders run from ~.4 to .6ms. I'm using one PGS and one 3/8" - 1/2" felt filler wad with 80-105 gr AA2495 at ~55 to 70% fill ratio, and getting velos from 1550fs to 1850fs.

    I found that Trail boss is an excellent powder also, as it has a high bulk density and gives similar high fill rates at 1/3 to 1/2 less power amountsthan AA2495 and produces about 2-400fs less velos, but still in the 1200-1400fs range...and a LOT less recoil.

    Ed Hubel has lots of information on the different brands of cases and the pressures they will handle in 20 and 12 ga. So far I've ran into recoil problems well before running into pressure problems with RMC/50 BMG brass cases in BOTH my NEF 20 and 12 ga USH's..

    You might check out Ed's data on Accurate Arms 12GaFH link if you haven't already.

    I would pull the barrel or at least unscrew the barrel nut to relieve the pressure, then maybe you can get the bolt open...you might have setback the bolt lugs or welded them to the receiver face from the sound of it. Those loads are showing lots of pressure signs and they have been telling you a story all along.

    I would stop mucking about until you identify whatever it is causing the pressure indications...some of those shotgun powders have a very fast pressure spike which means you might need to go to a slower burning powder...or it could be the sabot causing the ruckus...you have to count the weight of ALL THE PAYLOAD...bullet/shot AND wads...when considering the powder amount.
    Last edited by nfg; 04-27-2012 at 08:20 PM.

  19. #19
    Thanks for your feed back Nfg, I do appreciate it and I have noticed the Fiocchi hull brass is quite soft and start sticking way before the primer flattens!
    The bolt is badly stuck, I'm letting it soak with WD 40 and will try once again tomorrow to open the bolt!
    Thanks again.
    Ajay
    Video Memories
    VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
    www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


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    Pull the barrel.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check