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Thread: VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabot!

  1. #761
    Boolit Master
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    I've been fighting the exact same problem with a custom hollow base slug. They cast perfect, but don't fly straight no matter what. I'm starting to think having that much weight forward is detrimental for a balanced slug. I've seen it on taufledermaus where a hollow base slug that flies like a lazer from a smooth bore, is cork screwing from the rifled barrel. I'd bet mine would shoot good as a plain base, but that would bring them to almost 950 grains.

  2. #762
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    Markopolo's Avatar
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    950 Grains..... Yikes.... couldn’t you modify th pin a bit on your hollow base mold to get it to fill in more? So you could find that happy medium?
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  3. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    950 Grains..... Yikes.... couldn’t you modify th pin a bit on your hollow base mold to get it to fill in more? So you could find that happy medium?
    Absolutely. Infact, I had mine made with a flat point pin, which seems to trap air. I am thinking of cutting it shorter, and making it a rounded top. If I can just figure out how to get the roll pin out, I'll be on my way. It's pinned in, but the hole isn't all the way through. It's a teeny pin, but I'm thinking of tapping it for something like a #4 screw, then just pull it out. Now that I think of it, I tried chucking it in the lath before, with no luck due to the odd snowmanish shape. I wonder if I couldn't get it in a collet? Nope, no collet. It has the slider pins sticking out the side.


    Anyway, looking back, I don't remember why I went with a hollow base. I don't need penetration, I only shoot targets and deer. I should have gone with a giant hollow point. I was trying a design that was long enough to bridge the gap from shell to barrel. With no throat in a shotgun, my hope was this would improve accuracy. I think the best you can hope for in a slug gun is to self align. Thinking now of all the slop that's in a plastic shell, and wadding, it's a lost cause to hope for alignment before the barrel. I have to think a RNFP design has the best chance of alignment, then it's just hoping the rest of the bullet follows.


    I'm really starting to consider a Savage 220. A real 12 gauge bullet is just too much.

  4. #764
    Boolit Master
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    If you had gone hollow point, wouldn’t it have had a similar balance issue?? Maybe a shallow hollow point?? Or shallow hollow base?? How thick are the walls on the skirt of the hollow base?? Also, how about using a all brass case?? I ordered a bunch of those Rocky Mountain 12G all brass hulls that use normal shotshell components.. I bet that would be a cool way to make it go... just imagine what other folks faces would look like when they see you pull out a 12G all brass case with a big a.z.z bullet crimped in its nose???

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Can you get that pin out with a dremmel somehow??

    Sorry AJ for playing in your thread..

    Marko
    Last edited by Markopolo; 03-06-2019 at 11:32 PM.
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  5. #765
    Boolit Master
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    I've also thought about brass cases, but I've just lost interest, time, and money for the long range slug gun. I never liked rifles much, but the better hunter I become, the more I've come to a appreciate a shotgun, a real shotgun, and have really gotten into revolvers and muzzleloaders. The last two years of regular firearms deer, I left the slug gun, and took the muzzleloader instead.


    The Accurate 73-770S shot pretty dang good the last time I tried it. They are a PITA to cast, but I should make more. One of my all time favorites was the Buckbuster slug. I don't know why, but I never tried any other wad slug since. I recently bought a 7/8 oz Lee mold, and that's the next I'm trying.

  6. #766
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    Has anyone tried the 54 version in a 20 smoothbore? Any difference?

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    This might fit nice in steel wads. Or still too small?

  7. #767
    Greetings Petander, we had tested the .575 " bullet in steel wad in 20 gauge and it does require a couple of .125 nitro cards of 28 ga to rise the bullet.






    In the last picture you will notice a socket with a handle, that's what I used to push the .125-28 ga nitro card all the way home into the wad to be consistent. Worked like a charm !
    The long heavy bullets need the gyroscopic spin to stabilize therefore you will have success with only rifled barrel in 20 ga Nitro Express gun or else it would tumble in flight.

    Hoping it helps.
    Best regards,
    Ajay K. Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-02-2019 at 12:50 PM.

  8. #768
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    Wow,575 is reallllly tight in my steel wads at least.

    But I'm starting to believe these are too long for a smoothbore,like you said. A candidate for a rifled choke,maybe?

  9. #769

    20 ga .575 RB loads.

    The .575 RB loads in 20 ga are nothing but fun to load and shoot , yet very deadly when you aim for solid bones ! !
    Great loads when toned down to teach young kids and wife .



    Hoping it helps.
    Best regards,
    Ajay K. Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-02-2019 at 12:51 PM.

  10. #770
    Greetings, looking for heavier 20 ga Nitro Express loads, look no further:

    Want even heavier loads that will indeed kick like a mule from a Modern rifled gun:




    Hoping it helps.
    Best regards,
    Ajay K. Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-02-2019 at 12:52 PM.

  11. #771
    Greetings, here is a treat for 28 ga slug lovers




    Hoping it helps.
    Best regards,
    Ajay K. Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots

  12. #772
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Not sure if you guys have seen these videos from Taofledermaus but they tested a Lyman .69 Minie through fully rifled gun, rifled choke tube and smoothbore with amazingly good success:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr9cV2q__Ks
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bKg5_iX9A

    Most surprising was the smoothbore results. However, I don't think I would want to depend on the smoothbore results without some confirmation. The rifled barrel and rifled choke tube both showed excellent stability of the Minie though so that looks like a viable option.

    I have a rifled choke tube ordered and en route as I type! I will try it with a variety of wad slugs and full bore slugs but am leaning towards that 68569 Minie as a heavy slug!

    It this works as well for me as it did for Taofledermaus I am going to be wondering just how dumb I am to have spent so much time looking for decent long range accuracy! But I'd rather learn late than not at all!

    Interesting videos!

    Longbow

  13. #773
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    Lol i just want usable hunting accuracy out to abouts 100. That sounds like an interesting idea.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  14. #774
    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    Lol i just want usable hunting accuracy out to abouts 100. That sounds like an interesting idea.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Greetings Rcmaveric, with what you said I think you'll be OK with Lyman 525 slug in wad design and shooters have gotten 4 inch group with a rifled barrel at 100 yards. I personally do not have the Russian molds so can not give my feedback.



    You will need the put a .125 nitro card below the slug in wad to give it a solid platform at launch to help things out a bit. Watch the pictures carefully and you will notice the nitro card.

    Best regards,
    Ajay K. Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-02-2019 at 12:52 PM.

  15. #775
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    Hey Ajay, i dont have a a riffled a barrel. My hunting 12g is a Maverick 88 with 24 inch barrel smooth bore with bead sights. From birds to deer it does it all. Havent been able to dedicate much time to chase slug loads, but i have been following you for a while and have saved all your notes and Fortune Cookies 45LC notes. Lee slug attempts havent been too magical but I have started getting some promisingly results at 25 yards and usable results at 50 yards by cutting out the rib of Claybuster wads, using reduced loads of Blue dot, and using cork to raise the slug ogive to the edge of the cup. I would say 50 yards is my max range.

    NOE now makes a slug mold like the Lyman and I have been tempted. Those Rusian molds also look very interesting.

    I could look for a riffled Mossberg barrel. But during hunting i want to be able to use buck or slugs reliably without swapping a barrel in the feild. I dream of 100 yards, but thats a goal and realisticle 75 yards would make my day.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  16. #776
    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    Hey Ajay, i dont have a a riffled a barrel. My hunting 12g is a Maverick 88 with 24 inch barrel smooth bore with bead sights. From birds to deer it does it all. Havent been able to dedicate much time to chase slug loads, but i have been following you for a while and have saved all your notes and Fortune Cookies 45LC notes. Lee slug attempts havent been too magical but I have started getting some promisingly results at 25 yards and usable results at 50 yards by cutting out the rib of Claybuster wads, using reduced loads of Blue dot, and using cork to raise the slug ogive to the edge of the cup. I would say 50 yards is my max range.

    NOE now makes a slug mold like the Lyman and I have been tempted. Those Rusian molds also look very interesting.

    I could look for a riffled Mossberg barrel. But during hunting i want to be able to use buck or slugs reliably without swapping a barrel in the feild. I dream of 100 yards, but thats a goal and realisticle 75 yards would make my day.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Greetings Rcmaveric, you will gain by just buying the Carlson rifled choke, its a longer choke than others and will do justice.

    Cooking your own is indeed a fun hobby, do it brother for inner satisfaction ! !

    Best regards,
    Ajay K. Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots

  17. #777
    Greetings, the Lee 7/8 oz is a good slug for 12 ga.

    Use two .125 nitro cards below the slug in wad of 16 ga


    Be sure to use a newer modern gun.


    Best regards.
    Ajay K. Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots

  18. #778
    Boolit Master
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    Ajay, it's good to see you're posting agai, I was becoming concerned!
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

    unknown

  19. #779
    By the Grace & Glory of God Almighty, I'm doing fine in my end of the woods.
    Thank you for your concerns.
    If the 20 ga load permits, I like it this way:










    The pictures above do not mean a thing for shot shell loaders,
    since we the High Power Nitro Express loaders are looking for perfection we need to help out with the available sub-standard components and do what ever we can to help our load stand up to our high pressures the components were not meant for ! !

    Best regards,
    Ajay K. Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 06-18-2019 at 12:17 PM.

  20. #780
    Greetings, High Pressure Nitro Express Loaders.
    May God's Grace & Glory be with you all along with his choicest blessings ! !

    Knowing Pressure is our friend. Higher pressures lead to more consistent, cleaner burning loads.
    ** Roll crimping produces lower pressures due to less resistance from the roll crimp.
    I had early on switched to fold crimp while developing our loads and to make it easier on my friends not having to go out and buy yet another tool ( Roll Crimper )

    **--** When developing newer loads always use newer Fiocchi hull as they tend to show pressure signs early on for safety and once your load is developed switch over to newer Federal hull for hunting for a smoother action when the golden moment comes for that trophy you don't want the gun to mail function or turn into a single shot Nitro Express ! !

    Wise Tip's for Nito Express Slug loader's, Old is still Gold ! !

    " Old is Gold " the old theory still goes, accuracy from a shotgun slug is still a function of two things

    1. A good gas seal.

    2. Centering the slug in the bore with a snug fit through out the barrel.

    Achieve those two and you can shoot as well as many big game heavy rifles.

    Since efficiency and accuracy is our prime goal, we need all components to Rhyme with one another and work together hand in hands.

    Saboted Slugs are more aerodynamic, because they are encased in a bore-filling, fall-away plastic sleeve ( the Sabot ) which allows the shotgun to shoot a much more efficient projectile.

    Let's make the right choices:

    1. Choose your components wisely to custom tailor your loads for efficiency!

    2. We need good quality straight walled hulls that are made strong enough to SAAMI
    specification's but will show pressure sign's after a certain pressure level is reached for safety!

    3. Very important to know that certain powders require A Magnum Primer like Alliant Steel for
    example, needs a Fed.209A or CCI.209M!
    Stick with only top name brand primer's that are made to SAAMI specification's like Fed. 209,
    CCI 209, Win. 209 and Fio.616 only for regular primer's for our slug / sabot loads.

    4. Very important, your OP wad must form a good barrier between the powder gases and the
    rest of your wad column, therefore your wad under ideal situation should have longer skirts
    and if your gun has longer forcing cone all the more important for sealing powder gases!

    There goes your load efficiency down the drain:

    5. Let's give it some solid support, add a stronger darker nitro card to transmit the driving forces
    evenly, when ever possible try to incorporate a .250" nitro card in between.

    6. When ever possible try adding a good Felt wad of 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 inch to help reduce the felt recoil!
    I really love the darker felt fiber wads as they are made well and perform great, but are almost 2 1/2 to 3 time more costlier when compared to the cheaper felt wads from Circle Fly on the right!

    7. Top your Felt wad with a stronger darker nitro card, is like giving it a solid foundation to
    transmit the driving forces evenly and help support the Sabot from below to keep plasma gas
    blow-by from melting the Sabots!

    8. Your Sabots with the proper bullet should be a real tight fit in your rifled barrel and a properly
    designed sabot should not tag along for a free ride piggy back, instead should release the bullet
    immediately and drop off in the first 10 to 25 yard line and not any further!

    **When it comes to smooth bore then your slug in wad needs to be a snug fit enough to require
    6 to 8 lbs pressure to push it through with a wooden dowel and if any more then your pressure's are sure to be high!

    Watch out for your safety comes first!

    9. It is very important that you seat the slug all the way home, use 50 to 60 lbs wad pressure to ensure that.

    10. Try using a harder alloys for casting your slugs for use in Sabots, this way you reduce any chances of distortion at setback when fired allowing the slug to maintain its shape!

    11. A fold crimp will further enhance ignition as the pressures are known to be much higher with fold crimp, you also need a bit less powder this way!

    12. A clean cut rifling will engage the Slug / Sabot far better and impart the required spin for stability in flight for a greater gyroscopic stability that are harder to knock of course, and thus produce massive centrifugal force to help release the bullet instantly from the sabot.

    13. Under ideal hunting situation all you fire is one shot, in some cases may be two the most.
    Does it not make sense to do all your slug testing from a cold barrel and fire two shots to see how well your gun holds the accuracy under ideal hunting situation!
    When testing Slugs or Sabots, three shot group is all you need and pause between shots to let the barrel cool down a bit!

    14. Most loads are more accurate when you tone them down by 2 to 3 gr below Max, and the recoil is easy to digest and won't kick like a mule, that will help you shoot better!

    15. Most Autoloaders and Pump shotguns shoot far better if you tighten the barrel lug all the way then back-off one notch to relieve excess pressure on the barrel. Follow this procedure every time you venture out for a hunt ! !

    16. Polishing your guns forcing cones will definitely help as it has tool marks that the manufacturers failed to polish, its a simple do it yourself project ! !

    Put it in a hand drill and polish it with the feel, let your 6th sense help you here ! !

    Have the knowledge and exposure to " push the loading envelope" to the Max!

    Knowledge not shared, is knowledge lost!

    **--** My opinions are my own. They carry no 'special' value (except to me of course)
    Above all I really enjoyed writing this post!

    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots
    www.BlazingSabots.com
    BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
    http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl
    http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/ ... wforum.php
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... ot!/page1
    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=470417
    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961
    http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246
    http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!

    PS: The above information is only for my Elite Musketeer Group only so I quietly keep adding more and more to the same post loading it with pure 24 carat Gold,
    I'm not looking to increase my post count, just add more helpful information to help my fellow Brother put meat on the table for pennies a Pop ! !
    **--** You all know who all supported me now its payback time, I'm supporting you.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check