VdoMemorie-Blazing Sabot!

[turbo1889]

As far as hulls go it would be my personal suggestion that you develop a chart of "loading suggestions" for use with straight walled hulls and for Remington single piece compression formed hulls (almost always 2-3/4" length with rare exceptions).

I base that upon my experience with loading primarily full bore slugs and wad-slugs and a few sabot slugs (using home-made sabots formed from rolled brown paper tubes a process which does work but requires and incredible amount of time, effort, and patience).

Long story short, if you list loads in a three point charge format of "Min - Start - Max" by powder, projectile weight, primer type, and shell length with a known wad column set-up you can pretty much cover the entire variety of straight walled shells with just one listing.

For example I could list the following in good confidence as "loading suggestions" for the AM#73-700S slug for 12ga (this slug is for rifled barrel slug-guns don't shoot in a choked smooth bore gun):


Straight Walled 3" length 12ga. Hull:
~ Lead slug cast from AM#73-700S mold.
~ Wad Column Consisting of Fed-12S4 wad with petals cut off + as many 12ga. Nitro Cards as necessary to bring slug up to correct height for crimping placed between top of plastic wad over powder and bottom of slug.
~ Fold Crimp or 1/8"-1/4" Deep Roll Crimp.

----- Steel Powder, Magnum Primer . . . . . . . . . . . . . Min = 38gr. . . Start = 40gr. . . Max = 45gr.

----- Blue Dot Powder, Magnum Primer . . . . . . . . . . .Min = 26gr. . . Start = 33gr. . . Max = 36gr.
----- Blue Dot Powder, Non-Magnum Primer . . . . . . . Min = 28gr. . . Start = 35gr. . . Max = 38gr.

----- IMR-4756 Powder, Magnum Primer . . . . . . . . . .Min = 25gr. . . Start = 29gr. . . Max = 33gr.
----- IMR-4756 Powder, Non-Magnum Primer . . . . . . Min = 25gr. . . Start = 30gr. . . Max = 35gr.

----- HS-6 Powder, Magnum Primer . . . . . . . . . . . . . Min = 25gr. . . Start = 30gr. . . Max = 32gr.
----- HS-6 Powder, Non-Magnum Primer . . . . . . . . . .Min = 27gr. . . Start = 32gr. . . Max = 34gr.

----- LongShot Powder, Magnum Primer . . . . . . . . . . Min = 24gr. . . Start = 28gr. . . Max = 30gr.
----- LongShot Powder, Non-Magnum Primer . . . . . . .Min = 26gr. . . Start = 29gr. . . Max = 32gr.



And from me experience and running a bunch of pressure traces on such loads I can be reasonably confident that those are the numbers that will work with that kind of a wad column with that weight of full bore diameter cast lead slug in just about any straight walled hull. Obviously not every straight walled hull will be able to be worked up to a Max load but everything should work find at the Start load level and can be adjusted from there. So long as you don't load hotter then the "Max" you shouldn't get dangerously high pressure loads that could blow up your gun in your face and so long as you don't go below the "Min" you shouldn't have any bloopers and a "Start" load generally works out to be a decent load even if you don't work it a little to tune it to your gun by adjusting the charge up or down a grain or two.

A similar chart can be made up from my notes for that slug with the same kind of wad-column in Remington single piece compression formed 2-3/4" hulls. The charges will just be quite a bit lower due to the very tight initual gas seal that is formed from forcing the full diameter gas seal on the bottom of the Federal wad into the undersize tapered bottom of the Remington shell and the resulting loads won't be as powerful but they do have one advantage. Namely that when combined with a Magnum primer they make excellent cold and fowl weather loads that will continue to produce uniform ballistics well below zero when other loads may fail to even fire when the hammer falls much less maintain uniform balistics (I've personally tested their reliability down to a about -40 degrees) and are nearly immune from moisture and can even take a dunking in the creek and still fire just fine.

In any case, if you stick to offering loading suggestion for just two hull categories namely straight walled hulls as a universal group and the Remington compression formed hulls as a second group you give the loader a lot of options while keeping things reasonably simple. I divide up the straight walled hulls by length and make up two charts for the Remington shells one as maximum power cold/fowl weather loads and the other as low power plinker loads. You can always put a load for a shorter shell in a longer hull by adding more nitro cards as spacers but putting a load for a longer hull in a shorter one by using less spacers isn't advisable since there are slightly lower pressure tolerances for the shorter shells and removing nitro card spacers in and of itself increases the pressure levels (nitro cards do have some cushioning effect and under 10-K pressures they actually squish down to nearly half their normal thickness, I've tested them with a hydro-ram press).

Anyway that is how I have narrowed things down for keeping track of all my own load development and how I structure the information to share with others. As always I do include a small fudge factor towards the lower end. If for example I know that a load develops full maximum chamber pressures according to my pressure trace equipment with a 42 grain charge of a particular powder and the loads give good stable ignition all the way down to 26 grains and you start getting bloopers below that and I get good consistent accuracy in the 32 to 38 grain charge range. Then the numbers I'm going to share are going to be . . . . . Min = 28gr. . . Start = 34gr. . . Max = 40gr. Basically, fudging the numbers slightly on both the top and bottom end and giving you a start number that is inside the sweet spot I got for accuracy but towards the bottom of that sweet spot.

Anyway, that is how I choose to share my "loading suggestions" and how I structure them. YMMV

As to pictures, I do like all of the ones you post but I personally prefer diagrams I draw up in MsPaint since I feel that for communication of raw concept information they can do a better job sometimes then pictures which can be distracting. This for example being a diagram I drew up to show what a straight walled hull is and how it can very but they all work pretty much about the same so long as you can adjust the wad-column by using different numbers of nitro cards to compensate for how different base wads take up more or less space:

[turbo1889]

Another Interesting way to display the information is via. graph which also tells you a lot about the powders behavior, especially as projectile weight changes with all other factors being equal. Here are a couple I have plotted that I have compiled from a lot of my testing notes:

Straight Walled 3" length 12ga. Hull:
~ Cast lead slug full bore diameter
~ Wad Column Consisting of Fed-12S4 wad with petals cut off + as many 12ga. Nitro Cards as necessary to bring slug up to correct height for crimping placed between top of plastic wad over powder and bottom of slug.
~ Fold Crimp or 1/8"-1/4" Deep Roll Crimp.
~ Magnum Primer

Steel Powder:




Straight Walled 3" length 12ga. Hull:
~ Cast lead slug full bore diameter
~ Wad Column Consisting of Fed-12S4 wad with petals cut off + as many 12ga. Nitro Cards as necessary to bring slug up to correct height for crimping placed between top of plastic wad over powder and bottom of slug.
~ Fold Crimp or 1/8"-1/4" Deep Roll Crimp.
~ Non-Magnum Primer

LongShot Powder:




As you can see those two powders have very different temperaments and behave very differently as projectile weight changes.

Steel powders "Max" and "Start" charges (being determined experimentally at maximum chamber pressure and the beginning of the good accuracy sweet spot range respectively) are incredibly linear to the weight of the projectile across a wide range. With lighter weight loads it gets very temperamental at low charges and the "Min" charge below which blooper problems start to occur is barely below a "Start" charge. But with heavy weights the range of acceptable loads gets nice and wide and the powder is very "comfortable" with very heavy slug weights and works for a fairly wide range.

LongShot powder on the other hand has a definite progressive curve to it and it gets temperamental with a narrowing range of acceptable charges with heavier weight slugs and opens up with a wider acceptable range with lighter weight slugs.

At least that is how they behave with full bore diameter cast lead slugs in 12ga. with that kind of wad-column set-up. The best suggestion I can give you is to keep notes on every load you try and how high is too hot and how low is too low and where the accuracy sweet spot is. Get enough notebooks filled over enough years and you can start crunching that data in a spreadsheet program and coming up with load tables and even graphs. Or at least that is what I do, you are mainly interested in sabot slugs and I am mainly interested in full bore cast lead slugs but the basics apply to both.

[Carryacolt]

Excellent, excellent, reading Turbo. You, Ed, and Ajay, go and do well beyond what the rest of us are capable of doing. Being that you guys are willing to share, means we can advance our levels of understanding many of the technical aspects about our efforts that makes the "search" even possible for us "peaons". For all of us that get these rewards, we say THANK YOU. I have learned more in the last two years of this thread, than all the years preceding. Well done.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Go ahead show me just " One " post any where on the entire net offering what I shared in every single post of mine,
You were not only jealous but blind and could not see where I came from !

**--** I spent thousands of dollars from my own hard earned money to develop, research and experiment those ideas in to practice just so I could help you all put meat on your table as cheaply as possible, you in return even failed to give me even a complement when you used my ideas, which were meant to help you !

I kept asking to make my big brother post a " Sticky " put him next to my post for he too helped you all with open arms .
Yet another " Musketeer Ed Hubble "

Why would any one post in another's constructive helpful post if not to add more useful information !

For years I begged " Give me the choice to add more pictures here as those images are my ways of communication, so as to avoid accidents from happening !

The only way to communicate loads is through clearly marked pictures, only !
BS walks.

Those words fell on Deaf Ears !

Go ahead harbor the evil elements here.
Your threats to ban me will bear no fruits.
No more !
I ban myself !

[cavalrymedic]

Most definitely include felt and nitro cards in the kit is my vote. I am going to have to have them anyway.

[338RemUltraMag]

I tried sending him an email, asking about 20 ga sabots. Guess he didnt answer because they are just now being made?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Go ahead show me just " One " post any where on the entire net offering what I shared in every single post of mine,
You were not only jealous but blind and could not see where I came from !

**--** I spent thousands of dollars from my own hard earned money to develop, research and experiment those ideas in to practice just so I could help you all put meat on your table as cheaply as possible, you in return even failed to give me even a complement when you used my ideas, which were meant to help you !

I kept asking to make my big brother post a " Sticky " put him next to my post for he too helped you all with open arms .
Yet another " Musketeer Ed Hubble "

Why would any one post in another's constructive helpful post if not to add more useful information !

For years I begged " Give me the choice to add more pictures here as those images are my ways of communication, so as to avoid accidents from happening !

The only way to communicate loads is through clearly marked pictures, only !
BS walks.

Those words fell on Deaf Ears !

Go ahead harbor the evil elements here.
Your threats to ban me will bear no fruits.
No more !
I ban myself !

[hatcreek]

Can't wait

[jmort]

Better to do it the way you are doing it, the right way. That Sabot Kit looks real good. For sure, you want it to fit in "the box." The pen alone is worth the price of admission. Will be praying for the success you deserve.

[338RemUltraMag]

I have been trying standard foster slugs in my 20 ga ultra slugger but no dice, 12" groups at 50 yds.

Count me in on this when ready!

[Carryacolt]

Ajay,

I have sent you a response to your email at blazingsabot.gmail. Hope it helps.

[Carryacolt]

Ajay,

I have sent you a response to your email at blazingsabot.gmail. Hope it helps.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

A bit of my history, I grew up without a father, he died in an air crash in France in 1949.
I learned it early on, if I needed any thing I had to work for it and then go get it!

Go ahead show me just " One " post any where on the entire net offering what I shared in every single post of mine,
You were not only jealous but blind and could not see where I came from !

**--** I spent thousands of dollars from my own hard earned money to develop, research and experiment those ideas in to practice just so I could help you all put meat on your table as cheaply as possible, you in return even failed to give me even a complement when you used my ideas, which were meant to help you !

I kept asking to make my big brother post a " Sticky " put him next to my post for he too helped you all with open arms .
Yet another " Musketeer Ed Hubble "

Why would any one post in another's constructive helpful post if not to add more useful information !

For years I begged " Give me the choice to add more pictures here as those images are my ways of communication, so as to avoid accidents from happening !

The only way to communicate loads is through clearly marked pictures, only !
BS walks.

Those words fell on Deaf Ears !

Go ahead harbor the evil elements here.
Your threats to ban me will bear no fruits.
No more !
I ban myself !

[SuperBlazingSabots]

A bit of my history, I grew up without a father, he died in an air crash in France in 1949.
I learned it early on, if I needed any thing I had to work for it and then go get it!

Go ahead show me just " One " post any where on the entire net offering what I shared in every single post of mine,
You were not only jealous but blind and could not see where I came from !

**--** I spent thousands of dollars from my own hard earned money to develop, research and experiment those ideas in to practice just so I could help you all put meat on your table as cheaply as possible, you in return even failed to give me even a complement when you used my ideas, which were meant to help you !

I kept asking to make my big brother post a " Sticky " put him next to my post for he too helped you all with open arms .
Yet another " Musketeer Ed Hubble "

Why would any one post in another's constructive helpful post if not to add more useful information !

For years I begged " Give me the choice to add more pictures here as those images are my ways of communication, so as to avoid accidents from happening !

The only way to communicate loads is through clearly marked pictures, only !
BS walks.

Those words fell on Deaf Ears !

Go ahead harbor the evil elements here.
Your threats to ban me will bear no fruits.
No more !
I ban myself !

[jmort]

The meticulous testing will benefit all of us. Not sure if there has ever been a decent sabot available to slug loaders before you and Ed got going. I do have some Hubel Sabots which I recommend and will be buying more. But you are coming up with a tested line of dedicated sabots for multiple applications/barrels. Rifled and smooth, round ball and slug. Nothing like it has ever existed. Just a lot of compromise. Now we have no compromise sabots. For those who love shotguns and buck/ball/slugs, we are entering an new era. Thank you Ajay for sacrificing a scope or a few scopes and a chronograph or two and spending so much time and $$$ for our benefit.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

A bit of my history, I grew up without a father, he died in an air crash in France in 1949.
I learned it early on, if I needed any thing I had to work for it and then go get it!

Go ahead show me just " One " post any where on the entire net offering what I shared in every single post of mine,
You were not only jealous but blind and could not see where I came from !

**--** I spent thousands of dollars from my own hard earned money to develop, research and experiment those ideas in to practice just so I could help you all put meat on your table as cheaply as possible, you in return even failed to give me even a complement when you used my ideas, which were meant to help you !

I kept asking to make my big brother post a " Sticky " put him next to my post for he too helped you all with open arms .
Yet another " Musketeer Ed Hubble "

Why would any one post in another's constructive helpful post if not to add more useful information !

For years I begged " Give me the choice to add more pictures here as those images are my ways of communication, so as to avoid accidents from happening !

The only way to communicate loads is through clearly marked pictures, only !
BS walks.

Those words fell on Deaf Ears !

Go ahead harbor the evil elements here.
Your threats to ban me will bear no fruits.
No more !
I ban myself !

[jmort]

"I can proudly say I'm part of it..."

[hubel458]

Me too-papa musketeer.Ed

[Apocalypse]

Count me as a voyeur of the " Elete Musketeer's Slug Shooter's Family " , since I cannot purchase anything from your country to mine. I'm pretty well stuck with commercial slug loads or Lee drive key slugs. Even ball molds are hard to come by in my city.

[Carryacolt]

Count me in..."one for all, and all for one"

Charlie