Yea. now I know two.
One in Wyo and One in MT. ( the One in MT has a backhoe )
Gitting er done would be the problem
How many targets would a guy need?
On a low budget, I'd think one pit and three firing lines would have to work.
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Yea. now I know two.
One in Wyo and One in MT. ( the One in MT has a backhoe )
Gitting er done would be the problem
How many targets would a guy need?
On a low budget, I'd think one pit and three firing lines would have to work.
Brian,
1 pit is all that is ever used? Have you ever been to a Rifle Match with a pit? You build multiple yard lines each need to be to grade so as you move back you still have clear access to the Targets. Each target is pulled into the pits by the pit crew to be marked each shot and they must be able to do this safely while the target on eather side of them are still being fired at.
You should have at least 5 targets, that would allow 10 shooters per relay for a total of 20 shooters a day. 10 targets would be better, carriers would run about 1 to 2 K each so figure 10-20 thou for the carriers alone the Pits would need for safety reasons bermed and concreted, Figure 8-10 thou for the dirt work and the concreat another 10K I priced this all about 15-16 years ago. Years back the Lander rifle club put in a 1000 yard pit past the original 600 yard range. 4 targets were put in a very tight spot the cost using old carriers and scrap steel still ran over 10K just for the concreat and dirt work. 3 shooters per relay proved to make a very long day shooting 800-900-1000 yards. We later went to only 2 shooters per relay with 4 targets that allowed 16 shooters only. The matches require about 1 hr 8 mins per each yardline for two shooters. This includes set up time and then you figure moving the shooters from the pits to the Line after pit changes.
I would suggest you attend a NRA style event at Butte's Rocker Range where they shoot NRA High Power across the course, you would then have a much better Informed idea, and understanding, of what it entails for such a match to be run. And what is required to safely and correctly run. BPTR is much like Highpower, Creedmoor is very similar to NRA Long Range course and is fired the same yardages and the same target.
Your suggestions on the shiloh forum of course recieved no reply from the folks that actually shoot the match as it was quite clear, from your comments, you had no idea what you were asking for or talking about. No flame intended you just have no idea its clear, what the matches are like.
If you really want to help I would suggest attending one such match first then you can speak from a bit more of a informed position.
KW
The Lunger
last fall there was a diddy in the Torrington paper that there was going to be a 1000 yd match at the range at Guernsey that folks could attend, and there was even to be a practice session the weekend before. The phone # listed in the article wasn't right, and going thru the phone book for the guard yielded noone that knew anything about it.
Might try to find out what I can again, but not to hopeful....
Long range rules, the rest drool.
Don,
I looked up the WSSA, it seems there is a 1000 yard range at Laramie?? They will be hosting a Long Range state championship while we are in Raton for the BPTR match. I find this interesting. I am pretty sure Cheyenne also has at least a 600 yard HP Range perhaps 1000 yards too?
Check this out:
http://www.wyossa.com/matches.htm
Kenny
Kenny one of the clubs at Cheyenne had a 600 yd range, but I don't know if it's still going or not.
I think when Laramie county bought the Archer experiment farm one of the things they had slated was to build a 1000 yd range, but I'm not sure if it will have pits, or just berms like there at Rawlins.
Long range rules, the rest drool.
Kenny I guess we need to sick Eddie or Charlie on that Laramie deal, must be a new range? Anyway that might just be a place something could get started. Did Garbe and co ever get their range extension finalized with the blm?
Long range rules, the rest drool.
Yea Kenny, I agree. Need to go to get a good idea of the layout etc. Too bad they don't have more in the winter somewhere. Maybe If I hustle my *** off, I can slip down next spring for the one in Phoenix.
Everyone is talking about the need to increase the participation at the national level but until you can get more participation at the local level and have an extra reason for people to want to attend I doubt it will increase drastically.
So how are we going to get people interested locally? How can we get monetary participation from somewhere so we can build at least one range centrally located in States that have a decent number of shooters willing to participate?
Maybe you are right, maybe we can only have a few big matches at far away places.
Time will tell
thanks
Brian
Brian I think the best way to do it right now is find ranges with the facilities and then pursue the possibility of getting the chance to try a match there, and then beg borrow and plead with anybody and everybody with a rifle to come shoot the match...
Long range rules, the rest drool.
The match its self does not lend well for folks that are just slightly interested, Much like Highpower only a few diehards in Wyoming in that game too. Something else, when BPTR first started out as a national event, I was there, we had 120 shooters and held that number for 3-4 years, issues with NRA and Whittington center caused that number to drop also people lost interest, (its a very Hard Game to excell at) but as the attendance went down, The scores went up a great deal. The quality of the shooters and skills increased as the learning curve was overcome. Costs also increase, fuel lodging are two main ones. When I first started as a family man with kids-wife we camped due to being much cheaper, wife spent two weeks cooking and frezing stuff for the trip. Camping was $12 a night, full hook up. Now its $25 thats from 1996 to 2012.
Where as quite a few folks attend gong shoots, I can come up with over a dozen within a couple hunderd miles, 5-6 just in Gillette are regular attendies at the Q and Broadus. Its a much easier type of match to get into. Less rigid rules, and safety, Never even come close to having been shot at a BPTR Match even in the pits! Where as The Q I damm near bought it from a very stupid young lady that had no business even being on the line pointing a loaded rifle right at me and a whole line of folks shooting offhand.
Alliance is one of the better run matches and I enjoy it a great deal, but even the spring match and the fall match are two different ducks, different flavor. Bryan Y and I were discussing that just the other night on the phone. I have more important places to spend my hard earned Vacation and money at so I no longer attend the fall match.
As for central located ranges Raton is an excellent one less then 600 miles, Byers even closer but still over 400 for me. If they can make it a two day shoot it would be worth the trip.
Alliance has pits and is also excellent located, Getting someone to put the match on, Getting targets, frames, running the line?? and the Pits, this stuff does not all run by it's self takes a lot of work and planing. it is just 300 miles for me cross country that I grew up in from Edgemont SD to Crawford NE I can cut a good many miles.
Steve Rhoades goes through a lot of hoops to put on the best BPTR Match in the Country, the past couple years Raton's quality of the match has increased 10 fold due to the efforts of Jonathan and his crew of 6 folks. Skip runs one of the best pits I have ever pulled in due to hard work and listening. Better then any highpower Match I have ever attended.
just securing the targets and cardboard backers, is a real chore and is Expensive!
If I ever have a 50-60 K windfall rest assured I will put in pits on the ranch and at least 6 target frames-carriers. The Dirt work at Phoenix's pits or Ratons, would most likely run 500,000 to 800,000 alone. let alone building the raised firing lines like the 1000 yard one is.
Lots of things to consider, local matches, thats a bust few ranges in my opinion, what is needed is lots of converstation, and getting folks interested enough to travel to a well established well run MATCH. Then they can come home and look local for more. What you need to look at is if there are even enough people local that are interested to even try it. Jimbo and I have recruited Bryan that took years! at local gong shoots, he is trying real hard to get Dennis, and Vern long time gong shooters to come to Raton this year just to try Mid-Range first.
The costs, I hear that alot, and Laugh my *** off when I do, depends solely on how bad you want to do something. Heard about it from a buddy that blows 7-10 grand a years on snowmachines. I just looked at him and said Really????? Really????
John boy mentioned fixed income, and small pension, I can undestand that, Also looked at a picture of that pipe in his mouth, what does he spend on tobacco? I quit smokinig many many years ago due to the asthma, and chewing 25 years ago. The ammount I spent on tobacco was Horrible!, Its all about how bad you want to do something. All I say is if you can't afford it, then change that? your budget or get a FRICKING JOB! I really dont want to hear your whinning.
I would love to shoot high power long range again, however its quite spendy, rifles and the travel, ammo would be quite a bit cheaper with handloads. Yet I enjoy BPTR a lot more. So I take that nice bonus I get each year, sock it in the bank, income tax refund, Oh As a vaccation home my camper I carry a morgage on and that with my house payment nets me about a 2800 to 3200 a year refund, and I pay in over 26K in income tax a year. The refund covers the Camper payment for the year. Or I use it to pay for plates and powder! I have to prove 21 days a year the camper is used for vacation, pretty easy, with Raton, Cody, Alliance, Phoenix the past 2 years.
Local wise I think Byers and Alliance are our two best bets, Don I guess we need to get with Jim Bourn, and vist. Look at that possiblity. However that would most likely mean I budget out the Long range Gong match, as my dance card is pretty much full. With Phoenix in spring-now fall too, Raton, Cody National Rifle Club, Alliance May LR Match that is the only Gong Shoot I attend anymore, Big Whiskey spring-fall and Shiloh Shoot. Thats lots of Desiel and Grub and Travel.
So last year I attended Phoneix spring, Alliance, Cody, Raton, Big Whisky fall, Shiloh Match, and Phoenix Silhouette in Nov.. A total of 7 different matches.
Phoenix 5 days of shooting plus 4 more travel total of 9 days.
Alliance, I took friday and monday off plus the weekend came down thurs night. 4 days total
Cody, took wed for travel thur fri sat sunday, 5 days total
Raton 12 days total of sihouette-midrange, Creedmoor.
end of summer match big Whiskey fri sat sun monday holiday coming home. 4 days
Big Whiskey Shiloh match following weekend, left camper there came back friday night went home Sunday this year a two day shoot so will take a extra day come home Monday.
Then in Nov Phoenix 1-1/2 days of travel there 1/2 day practice, 3 days of Silhouette, then 1 1/2 days of travel home thats hooking it btw.
So As I say my dance card is pretty full! Well I am off to the ranch to vist for the weekend and see my brother and family. I will try to drop intonight after the hoopla settles down.
KW
The Lunger
PS remember, I work full time, have kids raised and gone, I am single! that alone makes me able to afford this! I don't boat, ski, showmachine, Hunt but a few days at the ranch, the rest of my spare time is casting loading and Shooting BPCR. Oh and I have 7 weeks of paid vacation. Oh and am terminally ill and Do what ever I want.
I don't worry so much about the cost of going to a match especially if we can sort of blend it in to a vacation, and the match fits our schedule. Some of these gong matches if you go shoot the whole thing, lever,22,handgun and the longrange can cost what the entry fee's for the midrange or the creedmoor at Raton do. For me it's 500 miles to Raton, 450 to Forsyth, and nearly the same to Cody, Big timber is back into the 500 mile range.
The only "close" orginized shoots are Alliance, Byers and Rawlins with Ekalaka being right on the 300 mile mark.
I think there are a number of folks around that would take up the bptr stuff if it was available, I could be wrong but sure wouldn't be the first time that happened....
Anybody priced golf lately,,,, sheesh....
Long range rules, the rest drool.
When we build our range we were on a very low budget. We got a old borrow gravel pit and made a very nice range out of it. It is a short 200 yards but it is the longest range around.
When we build our 15 frame pit we had a back hoe come in and dig a 6' foot deep ditch and the dirt was piled up in front for a berm the impact area was a existing hill side we cut the pit into.
We build the frame supports out of 2x8's and used 2" pipe for the frames to slide up and down on. the counter weights are like a flower box filled with rocks and it has a hard cover roof in the pit that is about 4 feet in front of the frames with a cement floor.
This has been working now going on 30 years now being used for High Powder matches and just for members to use when no matches are scheduled.
Two years ago I rebuild the frame holders welding the carriers up using angle iron.
Like I said it is a low budget pit but it has served us well for 30 years.
You dont need a high dollar pit made out of concrete and 8" wide flanged I beams for the frames to slide up and down on.
Originally Posted by kokomokid
Thanks, Graham is a nice ride from here. I've heard about their matches, just forgot. John McBride's match near Tulsa is worth the ride and motel room as well. There's an old military base south of here but I think they're mostly highpower and military enthusiasts.
Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.
Do you know if they shoot thru the winter? I have friends in both places.
(Graham and Tulsa.) I get down to Tulsa almost every year picking up or delivering radial engines to be overhauled.
Our BPCRS Matches in Tulsa start in Mar and end in Oct currently. The Match is on the first Sunday of the Month. Our BPTR Matches start on the 15th of this month with I believe 5 matches scheduled this year. These will normally be the third sunday of the month.
He is our Website:
http://www.tulsaredcastlegunclub.com/
curious why you guys quit shooting in the winter down there.
semtav
So...when you gonna go to turbines??
Who's doing your overhauls....Sam Thompson??
"The South died with Stonewall Jackson!"
when I win the lottery.
Yes Tulsa Aircraft Engines
semtav
Ever heard of DEER & DUCKS??
Much to my dissatisfaction...deer are hunted October, November, December, and January!!
"The South died with Stonewall Jackson!"
The costs, I hear that alot, and Laugh my *** off when I do, depends solely on how bad you want to do something.-Kenny Wasserburger
Agreed, had the same thoughts when I was shooting a lot of PPC. When the game changed to include matches for three different semi-autos I gave it up but mainly because I'd lost interest and adding three new guns & gear to the revolvers I already had pushed me out.
Shooting a match that only requires one or two rifles interests me but somehow I just don't have the time to travel to matches very often. Costs not an issue for this gainfully employed single guy, heck of a lot cheaper than racing or tournament fishing!
Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.
Gotta take some time off to fill the freezer and boolit cans.
Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.
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