Which of THESE Shotguns?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

thoughts?

[odfairfaxsub]

honestly just me get a 870 tact like the 1st one. you can't go wrong with remington quality, keltec quality is real bad (ask me about my p90 i sent back 3 times), pumps are ultra reliable i can pump mine almost as fast as my shot control with a auto. the siaga does not function the birdshots 100 percent of the time, the 877 if you pull the pump back when you pull the trigger the gun will not strike the primer. i have bought alot of shotguns and talked to alot of shotgun owners and seen a good bit about it. if you don't mind me telling you one personal opinion on what to buy buy a benelli m-2 with either standard sight or combat sight. i pefer the combat sight myself. they eat anything even my 6 pellet 000 buck loads ontop of 23 gr unique which is about as gentle as a tree fart.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello 123 DieselBenz, I like the #3 from Remington!
Triball loads from Dixie and OO and OOO buck shots and if you ever feel you need to shoot
sabots then simply buy this rifled barrel extension a 8 inch long just like the old Paradox guns of yesterday!
http://www.kebcollc.com/cart/store.p...on=show_detail
Time for fun, be sure to post some pictures here.
Ajay
Video Memories
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[35remington]

The ported chokes are a liability with Federal's Flite Control wad, as they strip it from the shot and patterns open up.

Just thought you might want to know before shooting the most tightly patterning (and fairly pricey) buckshot on the market. It will easily outrange a choked barrel with conventional buckshot.

Replace the ported chokes with a nonported, straight cylinder choke, as ported chokes and tight chokes actually open up the pattern with Flitecontrol.

I am a fan of non gimmicky shotguns. I cannot see where the 887 "armor" will do anything but add weight and bulk, and unless you are in the habit of bouncing the gun like a basketball off of concrete all the time I would pass.

With the 870 series, perhaps you would be better advised to go with the more expensive Police type models that have fewer MIM parts instead of going for all the spraypaint and plastic on the Express variants.

Cannot comment on the Saiga. Never had one. A bit bulkier looking, but "tactical" is where it's at. Trouble is, an instinctive swing and point is needed for buckshot shooting on moving targets, and I can't see these being able to deal with, say, targets on a skeet range.

Now, some might say they aren't planning to skeet shoot, but in an arm that is often pointed rather than aimed, handling counts for something, and a conventional pump is better for hitting fast targets due to superior balance.

And in combat, the combat shotgun with buckshot is, in fact, pointed rather than aimed when your opponent is moving, as they often are. FWIW. But then having lots of spare capacity and quick reloading might help if poor balance makes it harder to hit a moving target. I'd rather hit sooner with a less bulky shotgun.

[UNIQUEDOT]

My vote is for any version of the 870 that appeals to you. My personal defense shotgun is an old wingmaster with a 21" barrel. The 870 will digest any ammo within of course a certain range of length without fail. I have had people tell me that they would rather have an semi auto because they need only to put the bead on target and pull the trigger without the fear of either short stroking the gun or even forgetting to manipulate the action, but i would rather have a gun that will digest anything. If one is practiced with a slide action gun the action is always manipulated without thought... it's "automatic" and without fail.

[dogbert41]

Since you are talking crazy talk, I'd go for the Saiga and get me one of them bumbfire stocks for the AK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_W1pLT7xSA

[tommygirlMT]

For a "working gun" --- Either the Saga-12 or your choice of the Remington pump guns will work just fine --- dont underestimate the Saga-12 although not technically as reliable as a pump gun it is probably one of the best semi auto shotguns ever in terms of reliability --- same action as an AK-47 and just as reliable in the field --- far better then most semi auto shotguns to the point where it holds its own against pump guns in the field in terms of reliability

The Kel-Tec --- is a "toy gun" --- not a serious "working gun" so only buy it as a toy not as a work horse

I really wish they would import the Soviet special police edition of the Saga-12 to the United States --- it is a hybrid auto/pump just like the jungle gun such that the fore-arm is linked to the bolt through an overrunning slide assembly so that it can be pumped manually just like a regular pump gun if it should happen to jamb or when using ultra light loads that wont work the auto gas system --- now the S-12 runs almost all ammo without trouble and you really have to work at it and try to make it jamb to make it jamb --- but still the jungle gun type hybrid system where you can pump it manually if needed or so desired is the ultimate system that is better then any semi auto or pump shotgun giving the best of both worlds and they do make them that way specifically for the law enforcement community in Europe --- but they dont import that model to the US

[tommygirlMT]

Oh yah --- you asked about who had owned/shot the guns in question

Own a Rem 870 (not sure exact model)

Own a S-12 lightly moded to be very AK-47 like with all the AK wood furniture

Have handled and fired the Kel-Tec weird pup gun

Have handled and fired the S-12 police model --- couple years ago in Siberia --- our native hunting guide used one as his guide gun and was very proud of it --- The guns supplied to us as the hunters (cant bring your own if you want to hunt Siberia) were standard S-12 and S-410 models and a couple modern hunting type high powered rifle cartridge bolt guns that were specially licensed by the soviet-gov to the company he worked for --- apparently the gov up their has no problem with private people owning just about any shotgun with smooth bore barrel that they want but anything with rifling in the barrel is a big headache and a bunch of special permits and paper work plus money under the table to the gov guy behind the desk

[jmsj]

I have an 870 similar to #1 but is a turkey shotgun and not a tactical shotgun and it is great for turkey and target shooting with slugs but not so great at wingshooting.
I also have an 870 similar to #2 w/ a 23" barrel and it is my everything shotgun.
I have not shot the Saiga so I can't comment on that one but we keep an 11-87 w/ a 18 1/2" barrel with one of Wiljen's flashlights mounted to it at the backdoor. In fact there is a 12 gauge near every door in our house and in my bedroom. I know some of the experts don't reccomend the 11-87 w/ 18 1/2" barrels for home defense because of reliability issues. This 11-87 was my primary bird gun for nearly 20 years w/ a 26" barrel and is well broke in and utterly reliable.
I once heard that the most important thing about a shotgun is "BOOM, BOOM, BOOM". So I would reccomend for home defense one that you KNOW will fire and feed every time. One of the 870's would get my vote. Just my .02 cents
Good luck, jmsj

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Turn . . .

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

870's require both hands to recharge.
Autoloaders just need one.
I have a "Zombie-ized) 1187 Special Purpose 3" mag, 8shot extension and rifle sights.
I am going to add a Saiga 12 gauge to my vault in June, after I get back from Africa.

My local guy has a couple of the SAIGA 12 gauges. We went out and shot one. You cannot imagine the fun of dumping that 20 round magazine, alternating slugs and buckshot on steep poppers...

[UNIQUEDOT]

Somebody on another forum suggested a used Wingmaster, and chop the barrel and get a mag extension . . . hmmm . . .

That's good advice. One thing an experienced shotgunner does not want is the clumsiness of a magazine or drum sticking out the bottom of the gun when he/she is swinging on a target. If one were to attempt to swing a clumsy gun on an experienced gunner it probably wouldn't end too well for the person holding the clumsy gun.

Any time a shotgun is called upon it's because it fits a close range need and while a rifle like shotgun might look cool it would be impractical as a defense weapon although an excellent ambush weapon it may be.

[35remington]

Idaho, I can reload the 870 while it is still on my shoulder and pointed at any threat.

One handed.

One hand keeps the gun on target. The free hand accesses the rounds in the butt cuff.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Idaho, I can reload the 870 while it is still on my shoulder and pointed at any threat.

One handed.

One hand keeps the gun on target. The free hand accesses the rounds in the butt cuff.

Yeah me too, i didn't understand what he meant by "two hands". I've hunted with pump guns for so long that after the shot is away i have pumped the gun returned the safety and reloaded before the gun has reached the rest position without realizing any of it. It actually takes longer to reload an autoloader that is completely empty since you have to fumble for the release button. An autoloader with magazines are another story though, but if you don't have spare mags for it, it takes longer to load them than it does to simply slip rounds in a tube. When a jamb occurs with an autoloader you are probably getting shot while you're fumbling with both hands and having to lok at the gun rather than the threat to clear it.

[plumberroy]

Since you are talking crazy talk, I'd go for the Saiga and get me one of them bumbfire stocks for the AK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_W1pLT7xSA

We have done banned those at our gun club the average person is over the backstop by the 3rd or 4th shot

[tommygirlMT]

For the S-12 the big drum mags are indeed a little unweildy --- I have two of them mainly just for kicks that I keep loaded with cheap walmart bird shot loads just for kicks to tear up the range --- for real work I have a whole bundle of the U.S. made plastic 10 round stick mags loaded with OO buck and slugs --- those are my "main" mags for the gun --- Also have a couple two round "hunter" mags (they are really hard to find/get) that make the gun legal for bird hunting with if one so desire and they stick out not so much from bottom of gun compared to all the other mags --- plus I have the original mag that came with the gun that like holds four or five rounds

So far the only real blood it has drawn have been a couple deer with Brenneke slug loads and a few turkeys --- have the original external thread choke tubes --- no need for a fancy looking muzzle brake that dont do much but look cool --- use the thread protector ring for most everything normal that makes it just a straight cylinder bore --- and then have a tight choke tube for using it as a turkey gun --- which it does make a good turkey gun with 3" handloads of hevi-shot and takes out a lot of the recoil and is compact and is easy to put a bead on a turkey and blow his head off when he is making a run for it when you pop out from behind the ground blind with the military iron GI type sight I put on it that are are basically a copy of what they equipped some of the sharpshooter Korea era M1-grands with

Have no doubt though that if the time came it would make a real bad day for a bad guy (or gal) stupid enough to do something bad enough to put them on the muzzle end of it with me on the butt end

[garym1a2]

I have a REm 870 wingmaster and its a great shotgun. The mossberg 500 and 590 are decent also. I like the new Mossberg 930 also.

[flounderman]

it's your money and you can throw any amount of it away for fancy gimicks. you can buy a mosberg 500 and a barrel or two for a lot less than everybodys talking and have a usable all purpose gun. unless the chinese army invades, you don't need extended magazines. you want a well balanced, natural pointing shotgun, something fast to swing and lite. a 20 ga will handle anything that needs handling and with a 20 inch barrel, it's enough gun without being too much gun. a normal stock is all that you need and just in case you want to hunt with it, you can. when you get in pressure situations, simpler is better. and, everybody knows the sound of a pump shotgun being racked. the amount of intimidation, is equal to the square of the bore you are looking down. you can find an 870 or a 500 in about any pawn shop you walk in to. rather than keep them until the fall season, they will negotiate this time of year. a short barrel, with choke tubes will cover any situation

[legend]

the 870 will not fail you,i have owned several.

[Finster101]

Has anyone layed hands on a Kel-tec yet? I can not find one anywhere in my area. Yeah, I know they are toyish looking. The main reason I'm interested in one is that it will fit in a Harley tour pack and still be legal.