Ben's Red- Help

[shooter1059]

I need some help or direction. This was my first attempt at making a lube for pan lubing. A forum member had converted Ben's formula quantities into ounces for making a 2 pound batch as follows:
16 oz. beeswax
9.6 oz. red,tacky
3.2 oz. jpw
1.6 oz. dextron2
1.6 oz. stp
I did change the recipe in one way. I used 14 oz. of bees wax and 2 oz. of paraffin wax. Other than that I followed everything as posted.
I used a postal scale and measured everything out. However, when weighing out the red and tacky it used at least 3/4 of the tub of the grease. Does that sound right?
The mix melted well and I didn't have the bad smell that others talked about(but it is distinctive).
The first problem I ran into was trying to filter it through a T shirt. It wouldn't filter through. It just pooled up. I had to use a metal strainer to get any flow. The other issue I have is that it is so sticky that it gets every where you don't want it and would rather stick to your skin than to the bullet. I even heated the bullets first. What did I do wrong and how can I harden the mixture??

[kbstenberg]

This is just my experience! For me Ben's Red did not work well for pan lubing. It didn't spread well when heated. So I don't use it for anything but my sizer. Where it works good.

[fryboy]

a tube weighs 14 point something ounces so yeah 9.6 is over half but not quite 3/4's
ahh sticky , there's a temp range coming up to room temp when i whack'em crack'em as i dont kake kut , you may have to play to find your best spot , you can also add wax or oil/grease as needed to help make it work for you ( i think a lil wax would help firm it up )

[41 mag fan]

try some carnuba flakes.

If you can find the thread on Bens Red, read what I posted about how I use a wooden spoon and whisk, and the heating process. It worked for me and a few other gents on here. Very little straining needed, when using a whisk.

[longbow]

I make a similar (sort of) lube using Lucas Red 'N Tacky grease, paraffin wax, Ivory soap and a bit of Bardahl oil treatment.

Mine is fairly firm and I use it for pan lubing but I use a lube cutter and cut just as it is hardening up but still soft. That works well for me.

You could probably add more beeswax or paraffin to harden it up though the paraffin does not help it stick to the boolit.

Another option would be to remelt and add some Ivory soap. That should firm it up some. I used the Felix lube as a guideline for the amount of soap. That would also be changing the recipe significantly though.

I am sure there are a number of ways to salvage that lube and get it working for you. More wax is probably the easiest.

Longbow

[Ben]

I don't want to come across wrong with this statement.....BUT

I continue to read accounts of people making the lube and changing the recipe . They usually end with a " Can you help me ? " at the end of the post.

I've made a lot of Ben's Red and so have others without any types of problems ( other than using the wisk to get all the grease to liquefy and mix ) , you will get into problems and end up with a concoction that you won't be happy with by changing the ingredients in the recipe for the lube , for whatever your reasons.

[chambers]

I made a batch, did not have it hot enough and had to remelt at a higher temperature( which sounds liek what happened to you) , I then skipped the strainer as I had similar results of not straining well. I made sticks for my lubesizer and works well from my remelt of my first batch. I think it could be thicker and you could add more beeswax or carnuba right away. You can always contact the "Ben" as that is what I did to learn more.

[doctorggg]

Ben,

I made my first batch today and it seems to have turned out well. It's in the freezer now.
My question is: the 4 components that are liquid or semi-solid are measured by volume in a measuring cup. Is the beeswax measured by weight or volume? Should I melt it first and measure in a measuring cup or is a solid chunk weighing XX ounces Ok?
Thanks,
Greg

[Ben]

doctorggg

Most everyone here on the forum has been working by weight ( whether or not it is a solid or a liquid ), I have a graduated vessel that I put my components in , so I'm working by " Liquid volume " with my ratios of components.

The impt. thing is, once you arrive at a system of repeat ability for the lube that renders a good product ( that suits your individual expectations for a lube ) , stick with that and avoid the temptation of changing and experimenting with other ratios of components.

It is a little bit like my prescription medications that I take. I want the same identical medication each time the prescription is filled.

[doctorggg]

Thank you Ben.
My take on your answer is: if I am measuring everything in a measuring cup by "liquid volume" I should melt the beeswax to get the same proportion.

Greg

[Ben]

Greg

That should work just fine.
_____________________

Chambers is correct, it takes a good bit of heat to liquefy Lucas Red and Tacky grease. Just don't use anymore heat than is absolutely necessary to melt the Red and Tacky.

Ben

[gwpercle]

The secrete to mixing Ben's Red is to measure all ingredients in a liquid state. Liquid ounces , like the ones on the side of a measuring cup are different from the dry weight of ounce measured on a scale. Melt the waxes and red n tacky, seperatly , and measure in a measuring cup. The following is the correct amounts , in liquid state , measured in a pyrex measuring cup which has both CUP and OZS marked on the side:

24 ozs. = 3 cups - melted beeswax
14 ozs. = 1 3/4 cups - Red N Tacky , heat it..it doesn't really melt
4.6 ozs. = 2/3 cup - Johnsons Paste Wax - melted
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup - Dexron II or III ATF
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup- STP Oil Treatment

Note, 1/3 cup = 5 Tablespoons + 1 teaspoon
its easier to measure ATF and STP with a measureing spoon. I melt the beeswax and measure in a 4 cup or 6 cup measure then start pouring each liquid ingredient into a large lube melting pot. Double everything if you want a larger batch............. Hope this helps . You can do like Ben and mark the pot's side after each ingredient is poured in... now your melting / mixing pot is also your measureing cup too.

This recipe is for using 1 tube ( 14 oz. ) of red n tacky...

gary

[fryboy]

14 ozs. = 1 3/4 cups - melted Red N Tacky

you got it to melt ???

[doctorggg]

gwpercle,

Thank you for making this crystal clear. That's a big help. Greg

[MikeS]

While I wasn't making Ben's Red,(I was making another lube of my own design) the biggest problem I had was getting the Lucas grease to melt! No matter what I did I couldn't get it to really melt, at least not to a liquid state, at best it just got a little thinner, and I sort of mixed the liquified other ingredients into the softened grease. I ended up scraping my idea, so never tried remelting it all again, but that might have made it melt together better.

[gwpercle]

You are right about the red n tacky not wanting to turn into a liquid for measuring. Let me rephrase that : Dig the red n tacky out of the 14 oz. tube, put it in your melting pot and heat it while melting and measuring the other ingredients. I'm assuming there is 14 ounces in there and if it were liquid it would = 1 3/4 cups.

Say does anybody have an easy way to get the red n tacky out of the tube and into a pot without making a mess? I no longer have a grease gun but can that be used ? Ben you've probably got a good way to do this .. please advise

gary

[DeanWinchester]

Try using an old toaster oven like I did. It really helped me.

I was under the impression [from the start] it was by volume. Maybe that's why mine turned out so well. I have two pyrex measuring cups I bought specifically for making lube. Stuff a bunch of one ingredient in one, pop it in the toaster oven and melt it, then pour into another one to measure out the amount exactly. A small rubber spatula will help get that mess out really well.
As far as filtering, I anchored the tshirt material well and stirred with a spoon to keep it from coagulating on the cloth. I also kept some heat on it with a heat gun all the while.
As far as altering the recipe, I did have to add a bit more beeswax to stiffen it up a bit, but other than that it's perfect as is. Ben told me himself I may want to add more to suit myself and the consistency I wanted. It's kinda like "salt to taste" but don't otherwise modify the recipe.
YES, it's sticky as all heck. I try not to touch it as much as possible, the more you touch it, to stickier it gets.

I wonder, and I don't mean to criticize, but to anyone whose had troubles with it: Did you follow the instructions exactly as Ben did it or did you venture out on your own?

[DeanWinchester]

Say does anybody have an easy way to get the red n tacky out of the tube and into a pot without making a mess? I no longer have a grease gun but can that be used ? Ben you've probably got a good way to do this .. please advise

gary

Go to the Dollar Tree, Everything's a Dollar whatever you got in your area. Buy yourself an assortment rubber spatulas and a tupperware box to put them in!

[geargnasher]

I don't want to come across wrong with this statement.....BUT

I continue to read accounts of people making the lube and changing the recipe . They usually end with a " Can you help me ? " at the end of the post.

I've made a lot of Ben's Red and so have others without any types of problems ( other than using the wisk to get all the grease to liquefy and mix ) , you will get into problems and end up with a concoction that you won't be happy with by changing the ingredients in the recipe for the lube , for whatever your reasons.

Now you know why the Felix Lube thread is fifteen pages long!

Gear

[runfiverun]

not counting the threads that have fallen off the pages.
and the original.
you gotta do what worked,or make up your own lube after tossing a bunch of fail's.