Introducing the 400 BTS Mag!

[BT Sniper]

Getting closer, Another quick search revealed soem 10mm OD tubbing for $2.50 per foot. HUMMMMM ????? !!!!! INTERESTING!


EDIT! Well I'll be!!!! I found some of all sizes metric here in US! Still about $2/ft but interesting!!!!

BT

[b52fizzle]

Sorry wasn't paying attention in class, lol. Just knew it existed. Continue on I'm learning.

[BT Sniper]

No, don't leave thanks for posting, it lead me to some interesting new sizes of copper tubing I might need to play with some day. Found some in metric from 4MM up to 12MM so that is pretty cool. A bit expensive but cool for somthing like a big heavy boomer in my 40 cal or others.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Here is some bullets I got from another memeber here. 300 grains! Looks pretty good! Pictured with a standard 185 grain 40 cal made from 9mm. Notice how the 9mm is copper tone!

[b52fizzle]

I'm not goin anywheres, this seems too interesting to me, like I said before Ive been thinking about swaging for years read up a lot but mostly corbins stuff then put off for quite some time then refound this site, hope to to equip myself reasonably soon, just want to see what all my options are as far as bullet designs. Plus I've always got ideas bouncing sometimes good, that reminds me, could you use a mini chop saw with stop to cut your jackets, or a collet lathe and feed it through? Or is the tubing stiff enough? Lathe would be nice and accurate and polish and deburr.

[475AR]

BT, glad to see you got the bullets they look great in your cartridge. I can not wait to see how they perform.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks 475. Nice job with the bullets. First one I put on the scale weighed 300.0 grains. That was close enough for me I bet they will perform great. Probably put a big hole in what ever I shoot at!

You should get your package today or have it all ready.

I found 10mm copper tubing for about $2 a foot. I bet I could make us a tubing die for these!

Thanks again.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[b52fizzle]

Would fill the niche if there was a need for the heavier brush and bear busters especially in the case that your using should hold enough explosives for proper propulsion of copper clad lead projectile. Just some fun with words guys liking where this is goin though.

[b52fizzle]

I'm seeing a die that makes 150 to 500 gr with same setup pistol and rifle in one, close to having pistol and rifle in same chamber, same cake pan just add more batter.

[475AR]

Thanks, I am going to have to find a good way to cut tubing and process the ends so no burs and stright cut. Also I am looking into a tip die and also some way to make the tips uniform, but no one makes a meplat uniformer for something this big. I have found another source for drawn jackets jackets but they run $60 per 100.

Thanks 475. Nice job with the bullets. First one I put on the scale weighed 300.0 grains. That was close enough for me I bet they will perform great. Probably put a big hole in what ever I shoot at!

You should get your package today or have it all ready.

I found 10mm copper tubing for about $2 a foot. I bet I could make us a tubing die for these!

Thanks again.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[b52fizzle]

How accurate do you want them cut? What kinda rate of speed you looking for? How stiff and straight is tubing? Is collet lathe feasible, like I mentioned earlier? Could you rough out then finish in drill press with three way cutter with copper tubes in vice with holes drilled or v channels to hold but not crush tubing, can set specific depth do both sides while mounted in jig. Drop from jig reload and go again, repetitive, accurate, and depending on how many you do at a time and how quick you can setup may be able to do.production type numbers. Just some thoughts I already been kickin around to use when I get started, but using one side and trimming casings could probably use to trim for reloading too.

[BT Sniper]

My idea was to have a "favorite" calliber I can shoot in teh majority of the guns I own, both riffle and pistol. The 40 cal from 9mm brass as many of you know is just this bullet. I can make it at any weight I want. In the pistol I shoot it at 185 grains. I can shoot the same bullet in the 400 BTS mag and future 40-308. Or I can start adding more weight. I use a 158 grain .358 core with the 9mm brass and I get a nice 225 grain bullet that should shoot well in the 40-308. Or as you can see I can make heavier with different jackets up to about 325 grains in the CH die with my improved internials. The 400 BTS as far as being a heavy hitter really doesn't fit any nitch in the market that isn't allready filled with 375s or 416s but it is sure fun to shoot and cheap and easy for me to make bullets and that is what I made it for. So..... I can shoot my 400 BTS MAG for next to nothing or shot a 416 taylor or 416 rigby for what?????? $3-$4 a pop if I had to buy commercial loaded rounds? I think I'll stick with the 40

BT

[b52fizzle]

BT,
The niche in reference was the 10mm tubing sorry I didn't specify, kinda like in another post I said something about necking up the 7.62x39 to .400, guess what go like ten more thousandths and you have a 401 self loading Winchester, and here I thought I was on to something

[b52fizzle]

Always wished the 45's were compatible this way, .452 and .458, for this same reason. Maybe neck down my 45-70 to. 400 there was a 40-70 at one time but think it was closer to .410?

Sent you an email BT.

[a.squibload]

Been in this same line of thinking for a while, want a folding Kel Tech 40S&W
mainly 'cause I can make the boolits! There was a group buy for AR15 barrels
& etc, got me thinking about 10mm or 10mm mag. There was mention of a
44-284 and others, but 40 cal should be fine and uses up less lead.
And looks like these swaged case boolits will fly pretty fast!

So then BT makes a necked-up 40cal, and I'm thinking my cartridge
doesn't have to be THAT powerful. Like a 308 case cut short with a
40 pistol boolit.
Would that be close to a straight-wall case?
Of course if it's too "wildcat" the barrel / chamber cut will be an expense.

So maybe I'm just dreaming but would be nice if something like this would
work out in a semi-auto using a 40 pistol boolit but a little hotter than a
pistol cartridge. And doesn't have to be an AR but they're apparently easy
to put together, and lots of parts available.

Oh yeah, also want a 40S&W Charter Bulldog revolver, in case I break a part
in the other pistol I'll still have something to shoot all these boolits that are
piling up. It's all your fault BT!

[BT Sniper]

I take full responsability Matter of fact if it wasn't for all the orders I have to work on and fill I would have posted results from the 40-308 allready. The gun is all put together! I just need to go threw the steps of fire forming the brass then getting it loaded.

I think the 40-308 maybe the perfect bolt action and possibly semi action round for the 40cal/10mm.

The only reason I had the Mag put together was 1. my GS had an extra barrel and I had a lot of 300Wm brass 2. I wanted to see how fast I could push these bullets and how accurate they really are capible of and 3. the best reason...... and the one my GS told me..... because we could

But it is sure fun to clear the range with the blast from the big 400! I expect the 40-308 will be a lot of fun and certainly a bit more pleasent to shoot.

This project was my first attempt at swaping barrels on a receiver, I got to say that it is a lot of fun and easier then one would think when using a Savage action with their barrel nut. If I had my way everyone would shoot a 40 and everyone would use a barrel threaded for a Savage action.

Expect new developments soon with the 40-308

p.s. I heard the AR10 would be a good platform for the 40-308? I don't know what max length OAL the AR15 will run but with a 308 case we can load a 40 cal pistol bullet that will be only .250 longer then the case length to the tip of the bullet. Wether that would fit in the AR15????? I don't know yet. Quick google search and with the bullet seated just a bit shorter the OAL of the 40-308 could be 2.250 (actual #s the 308 win case = 2.015 The nose of the 40S&W is about .250 in length with my custom die or upgraded CH die, that would be 2.265!!!!!) ....... another quick search says the OAL of the 223rem is 2.260 HUMMMMM??????? anyone care to coment on wether a 40-308 would actually function in a AR-15? I know it was said "negitive" but.......... ???? the AOL should fit the mags! YES? no?

BT

[475AR]

How accurate do you want them cut? What kinda rate of speed you looking for? How stiff and straight is tubing? Is collet lathe feasible, like I mentioned earlier? Could you rough out then finish in drill press with three way cutter with copper tubes in vice with holes drilled or v channels to hold but not crush tubing, can set specific depth do both sides while mounted in jig. Drop from jig reload and go again, repetitive, accurate, and depending on how many you do at a time and how quick you can setup may be able to do.production type numbers. Just some thoughts I already been kickin around to use when I get started, but using one side and trimming casings could probably use to trim for reloading too.

For me just to be able to do clean stright cuts is good enough, I have form/trim dies to do the rest. My big issue is the burs inside from cutting and uneven cuts. If the cuts are not stright when I end round the jacket it can be off center and the jackets do not shoot well. As for speed I would say as fast as can be done with out getting burs, uneven cuts and dis-storting the tubing.

[475AR]

I take full responsability Matter of fact if it wasn't for all the orders I have to work on and fill I would have posted results from the 40-308 allready. The gun is all put together! I just need to go threw the steps of fire forming the brass then getting it loaded.

I think the 40-308 maybe the perfect bolt action and possibly semi action round for the 40cal/10mm.

The only reason I had the Mag put together was 1. my GS had an extra barrel and I had a lot of 300Wm brass 2. I wanted to see how fast I could push these bullets and how accurate they really are capible of and 3. the best reason...... and the one my GS told me..... because we could

But it is sure fun to clear the range with the blast from the big 400! I expect the 40-308 will be a lot of fun and certainly a bit more pleasent to shoot.

This project was my first attempt at swaping barrels on a receiver, I got to say that it is a lot of fun and easier then one would think when using a Savage action with their barrel nut. If I had my way everyone would shoot a 40 and everyone would use a barrel threaded for a Savage action.

Expect new developments soon with the 40-308

p.s. I heard the AR10 would be a good platform for the 40-308? I don't know what max length OAL the AR15 will run but with a 308 case we can load a 40 cal pistol bullet that will be only .250 longer then the case length to the tip of the bullet. Wether that would fit in the AR15????? I don't know yet. Quick google search and with the bullet seated just a bit shorter the OAL of the 40-308 could be 2.250 (actual #s the 308 win case = 2.015 The nose of the 40S&W is about .250 in length with my custom die or upgraded CH die, that would be 2.265!!!!!) ....... another quick search says the OAL of the 223rem is 2.260 HUMMMMM??????? anyone care to coment on wether a 40-308 would actually function in a AR-15? I know it was said "negitive" but.......... ???? the AOL should fit the mags! YES? no?

BT

BT, I work with AR-15/AR-10 ALOT, the issue with the 308 version is going to be bolt thrust in the AR-15, in order for it to work you would have to keep chamber psi to between 25,000 and 30,000 psi, otherwise you will shear the lugs on the bolt. There are some companies that are producing stronger bolts that would work and allow about another 10,000 psi. As for the COL, there are some AR-15 mags that allow for a COL of 2.3". I have a round that is based off the 45 Win Mag case necked down to .400 (think of it as a 40 Super Super Mag.) with pistol bullets we can push 180gr bullets @ about 1800fps out of a 10.5" bbl. I would think if you wanted a 40 round based off the 308 case look @ the BR case (1.5" 308) this would put it in an AR-15 with no issues as long as you do not run it @ 50,000psi. Do you have Quickload/Quickdesign software? I use both to play and test rounds before I spend $$$ for a reamer.
I think the fill size 40-308 BTS would be a GREAT round in an AR-10 and would only need a barrel made for it, all parts would work with out issue and you could run it @ full psi.

[a.squibload]

...bolt thrust in the AR-15, in order for it to work you would have to keep chamber psi to between 25,000 and 30,000 psi,...
... 45 Win Mag case necked down to .400 (think of it as a 40 Super Super Mag.) with pistol bullets we can push 180gr bullets @ about 1800fps out of a 10.5" bbl...

Good stuff! Couple questions:

Are AR10 parts and AR15 parts pretty close on prices? I assumed AR10 stuff
would be more expensive.

How does your 40 supersuper mag at AR15 pressures compare to 10mm mag?
If they are pretty close it might be easier for me (my experience level) to just
work with the pistol cartridge (straight wall).
I'll look up 10mm mag later after work, not familiar with it.



The Savage bolt action setup sounds tempting, might save on gunsmithing!
Maybe I'll spot a used one.

[BT Sniper]

Found out a bit more on the AR10 vs. AR15 with the 40-308 potential. It was told to me that the AR10 is the clear choice and the AR15 would not be a good choice for a round like the 40-308 (necked up 308win to .400)

I dont' intend to chamber a AR10 for this round anytime soon. I am pretty happy with using Savage actions. Very easy to do the work yourself when swaping barrels.

BT