"Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

[geargnasher]

I listed "a" set of test parameters, ultimately we will each have to suit ourselves though. Two, ten shot groups from a clean barrel at 100 yards for rifles with known-good load. Allow to sit a few days or weeks, then two, ten-shot groups again without touching the barrel. Pistols can be tested at whatever range you like, however many shots you like.

If testing the soap lubes with 30% or higher sodium stearate content, you might consider the need to adjust the load for the lube because it DOES change the friction characteristics of the bore significantly.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Brad, my .30-30 has just the faintest hint of translucent grey points extending from the lands, nothing as much as yours is showing. I'm running a much hotter load than that, though, right at 2100 fps. The hotter the load, the less is left behind. I think most of what you have there is 2400 exhaust more than lube.

The cold might be doing it, too. That's a dang good pic to have been taken with snow on the ground, I'd have been shivering so hard it would just have been a blur.

My revolvers and autos have virtually nothing on the muzzles, but there is a big wet spray on targets shot at two feet.

Gear

[btroj]

I need to shot it some with my load of RE15. That will get over 2100.
I just used the 2400 load as it is something I have used a bunch and I know what the rifle does with that load.

I have plans to shoot some 44 specials in my SRH this weekend. I will clean it up well first. The stainless will show any lube spray thru the barrel/cylinder gap. Most lubes make a huge mess of the revolver in a big hurry.

[Marlin Junky]

It's all in the Felix lube sticky. Start at the end and work backwards. There's a lot to learn in that thread anyway.

Gear

I haven't got time to sort all the chaff from the wheat in there. Do the castor oil molecules grab hydrocarbon groups from the mineral oil to make the castor oil molecule more adhering (i.e., three dimensional); therefore, another way to refer to the "Felix" process is the polymerization of castor oil? If that is the case, what happens to the mineral oil molecules that have been robbed of their CH groups?

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

I think most of what you have there is 2400 exhaust more than lube. Gear

Affirmative.

MJ

[geargnasher]

50 freakin' pages, guys. Wow. Are we there yet?

There was a time when ten bricks of LR primers on the shelf made me feel like I'd never, ever run out. Now I'm starting to wonder.

There was also a time when a year seemed like a long time, too.

Gear

[runfiverun]

don.
you are losing excess mineral oil when you heat it.
notice the gassing off. that's the 0 leaving.

brad.
did that rifle shoot a little right when you got it?

[Marlin Junky]

brad.
did that rifle shoot a little right when you got it?

Looks like the sight on the old Marlin (12 microgroove model ) was mounted off center but you're probably looking at camera lens distortion.

MJ

[btroj]

I don't remember where it shot. I bought it used. Based on serial number it was made in the 70s.
Yah, the crown isn't quite square.
It does shoot pretty well, for what I use it to do.

SL61 does flow quite nicely thru my Star. No heat, just pressure. A tiny bit of heat may have helped but pressure alone does work.

[Bigslug]

And the thread became a year old today. . .

[runfiverun]

and we didn't even make 2-k posts or 100 pages siiigh.
I run it with high pressure and just enough heat to get the body of the machine warm.
if it was anywhere near 70 in my shop I think it would flow without heat.

[btroj]

My feeling exactly Run. Little heat is needed.
Paraffin formulas may need a bit more but still not much.
Any pressure or working makes this stuff softer and workable.

[geargnasher]

I used to think the work-softening was a bad thing and went out of my way to combat it. Also used to think that lots of slickum was a good thing. Lube engineering school is kicking my butt.

I think we can agree that the paraffin version is going to need Vaseline, mineral oil, or more Goo to make it a more workable consistency, but not much more than called for in the standard SL-62 recipe. Oh, and gawd it's dry. Ester two-stroke isn't helping like it did with the beeswax, might have to go back to castor oil, lucas oil, or bar/chain oil to help it lube.

Gear

[btroj]

I hope to try the paraffin/beeswax combo with mineral oil and K2 is weekend. It has less tack than straight beeswax but it isn't nearly as dry as the paraffin alone mix. I think this stuff would still work in a sizer without heat. Like the others, it work softens. I like that.
Got a couple handguns cleaned up and ready to try with plain old SL61. I hope it runs clean. I get tired of black goo all over me.

[geargnasher]

The SL-61 ran clean as jacketed through three revolvers and one of my .45 ACP 1911s. I already adopted it as my official pistol lube for now since I filled a sizer with it and it's worked the best of all of them so far in handguns, the CORE have less effect in shorter barrels and I haven't noticed or cared about any slight first-shot flyers.

Gear

[felix]

Shooting "it" should make it turn to something like a liquid to roll with the punch, assuming this state lowers the viscosity enough to fully eject with the boolit and gets thrown off of the boolit as well. Question remains: 20K psi or 45K psi? Hopefully, both! ... felix

[btroj]

I haven't loaded for the 44 mag yet. Have 200 loaded for the 1911. Rose are with a 200 SWC and 4 gr of clays so it will be pretty mild for pressure.
The 44 mag will get either 44 specials with HP38 or maybe some 44 mag with 2400. The specials sure are a lot more fun to shoot.
Both are stainless so any lube goo left on them will show up quick.

[runfiverun]

I made a micro-wax version today and [re] learned some stuff about the soap lubes.
just like when I made the gel and added the wax in, the two versions take the modifiers differently.
it appears that some mineral oil is necessary, not only for the soap to work with, but to modify the final visc of the lube.
the paraffins are not as flexible as the b-wax versions, so need more of the
oils to make them so.
I am going to predict that we will be using both types of wax in the final version. [the paraffinic wax at a much smaller percentage]
the addition will lower the flow point of the b-wax but not affect the lube in the heat
a poe oil [very small amount]
and mineral oil.
the amount of mineral oil used [whether from the higher melt temp of Vaseline or a combination] will define the final flow point of the lube.

that's what I am seeing.

[geargnasher]

{edit} Lamar, I was typing while you posted so this isn't a direct response, but I agree totally except for maybe the beeswax. but only testing will tell about that and if I can find something better........

SL-61 is fully a liquid mist at ~10.5K psi, and is atomized at 35-38K. I think it takes a bit more pressure than 10k to fully liquify the Beta lube in a 4" bbl. at low pressure, but it's probably 95% liquid even then, at 50 degrees based on jettison test observations. Any mineral oil content seems to amplify the jettison.

These basic soap lube concoctions using the Assemblee Goo have solved a lot of common lube issues like melting to liquid at car trunk temperatures, in hot chambers, or in direct sunlight for a few minutes, the chronic "wet" barrel syndrome that's so difficult to control, and the stubborn problem of not going liquid in the cold when made robust enough for hot weather shooting. All we need to do is choose and perfect the oily "lube" additive that will be used to keep bore condition consistent, and find the right wax. I think the "right" wax is going to be a paraffin/micro blend with about a 150-160 melt point.

De-gummed, two-stroke-grade castor oil might be the lube of choice, since it's evaporation rate is extremely low.

Gear

[btroj]

As of right now I can't see where you are wrong Run. The version I made using those basic ingredients has the best feel of the variants I have made so far.
I suppose the proof is in the shooting!

Gear, I assume this basic formula handles heat like nothing else. It sure won't melt, ask my FIL!

Also, it looks like Maxima makes a castor based 2 stroke oil. Might be worth looking into. May have a few solvents or other ingredients added but I don't think something to prevent gummy buildup are bad for our needs.

An order may be in order. If nothing else I won't be buying 2 stroke oil for the blower or chain saw for a few lifetimes!