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Thread: "Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

  1. #141
    Boolit Master bruce381's Avatar
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    2 boxes sent today to fool with to gear and run5run.
    I put some notes in the box how about this:

    add some silica or bentone thickener to whatever lube and let the high speed shearing of the boolit down the barrel thicken the grease film left on the barrel?
    hurts your head huh LOL.
    bruce

  2. #142
    Boolit Master Marlin Junky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce381 View Post
    2 boxes sent today to fool with to gear and run5run.
    I put some notes in the box how about this:

    add some silica or bentone thickener to whatever lube and let the high speed shearing of the boolit down the barrel thicken the grease film left on the barrel?
    hurts your head huh LOL.
    bruce
    Will the grease film become "thicker" (i.e., higher viscosity) near the muzzle opposed to near the chamber?

    MJ

  3. #143
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    shearing [in this case i believe] is refering to incorporating air in the mix raising the viscosity,
    because of the stringy tackyness.
    i would rather have the reverse happen.
    i have some ideas how to combat this [the poe] should help too.
    this should help with loads that have high muzzle pressure though.

  4. #144
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    Yeah. Try to get THAT to happen the same way every shot!

    Gear

  5. #145
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    less lube.
    we'll have to run it on the edge.
    fudge the lube to the wet side, and use less.
    this might be where the carnuba comes in.
    a lot of my molds are single lube groove, but there is the g/c area.
    and sometimes that is all that's needed.
    the thickening isn't all bad it would be somewhat self repairing.
    and if it wants to stay on the boolit i got no problems with that whatsoever.

  6. #146
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    I believe that's correct Lamar. With available products/concoctions I think over lubing is very common. A lube purge if you will. With perfect fitting bullets bench shooters are shooting quite fast with only the area above the gascheck lubed. VooDoo lube is one particular lube that's working well much like the old Gray's lube. Another problem with a wonder or universal lube....how much for what bullet in what barrel length....lol. Lubricity with minimal build up makes sense to me.

  7. #147
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    I really can't convince myself that a lube really is "used up" each shot. I think what's happening in good circumstances (i.e. no gas leaks) is that the lube pressurizes and just kind of floats in the grooves as the boolit goes down the bore, and that the surface of the lube ring slides against the microscopic film of lube/powder residue from the last shot. Any significant accumulation of lube from each shot should be wiped out by the next ahead of the boolit and a fresh film left behind. If too much is left, like Shooter93 said, it will make purge flyers every few shots. I've eliminated purge flyers more than once by dropping back on the number of grooves lubed, learned that here from the brains on the site before I even joined up and that remains one of the most valuble things I've come across for accurate rifle shooting.

    The VooDoo lube does intrigue me greatly, I believe they have struck upon something similar to what we're trying to do here: A thick, synthetic grease base with a few modifiers thrown in to tune it for use as a boolit lube, particularly the "friction modifier" they use, which is probably a wetting agent like Bruce381 has told us about. That's probably the key to success with the lube, conquering the all-important "bore condition" monster that causes us so many headaches with our first-shot flyers when working up hunting loads. I still don't know what to think about the "anti-seize" stuff they're putting in it, not sure if it really works as such or if it fills micro-pits/machine marks in the barrel, or aids as a stop-leak, or all of the above, might have to experiment with some at some point in my lubes. Might also have to buy some VooDoo lube and try it out.

    Gear

  8. #148
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    my goal isn't to mimic a known lube.
    i'm after a consistent viscosity in a 100* temp window.
    this in turn should remain consistent in the bbl alleviating other issues.
    i did have a chat with our local distributor again today.
    and had to explain block grease to him.
    i gave him a basic idea of hardeners and stuff.
    he'll get back to me.

  9. #149
    Boolit Master bruce381's Avatar
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    silica and bentone gellants activate when sheared IE the particle gets ground down by slidding against each other particle and the steel, the more it is ground down the more it gels the base fluid. same as in a barrel as a boolti sliding doen a bore with the grease lube in between.

  10. #150
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    allright.
    i put some of the box to use last night.

    5% aluminum stearate [109 grns] weight
    5% of the binding wax [102 grns] weight
    1% of the cab-o-sil [20 grns] weight
    1-1/2 tbs of the breox 1000 oil- volume
    1-1/2 oz's of the micro wax- weight
    in 5 oz's of white lithium grease [lubriplate assembly lube] weight

    blended forever [over a half hour]
    decided to add some to beeswax.
    so i added 3/4 oz of the mix to 2 oz's melted bees wax
    stirred that, re-melted, and stirred that into a nice playdough like consistency.
    let it sit over night.
    it does thicken up at rest, so be careful of what you think the mix is doing and want to add more gellants.
    this morning the wax and lube are quite a bit harder.
    not as solid as bees wax alone but stiffer than i like [it would still flow through a lubesizer]
    a 50-50 ish mix would most likely be better.
    it has good tackyness though and the b-wax is more like a component of the mix rather than a carrier.
    i think i will re-melt it again and add another 1/2 oz of the mix to the b-wax.

    the gelled grease also come up on the visc.
    in 8 hours it went from a whipped egg white consistency to a thick frosting that forms nice peaks.

    i still need something in the mix for a bore whetter though, i can feel it's missing in the base/mixed lube.

  11. #151
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    I think the lithium and aluminum stearates are reacting with each other and changing the viscosity.

    Still waiting on UPS, I think they forgot where I live!

    Gear

  12. #152
    Boolit Master bruce381's Avatar
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    I tryed about 1/4 HTO and 3/4 micro wax and that looked workable to me. also HTO and breox looked good and very high Vi or softneing when hot, gear box is out there somwhere maybe I can look up tracking number

  13. #153
    Boolit Master bruce381's Avatar
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    Gear box is out for delivery today,ou must live in the sticks LOL.

  14. #154
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Reading some lube research yesterday, seems like a Al/Mg/Si lube is really good, 80k psi, temp stable. PTFE is only 5k psi. Haven't found any info on how to use it. Supposed to be as good or better than molydisulfide but doesn't break down with high heat and become abrasive like moly.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce381 View Post
    Gear box is out for delivery today,ou must live in the sticks LOL.
    I do, but not far enough from my neighbors! Thanks for checking.

    Gear

  16. #156
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    bruce.
    that was my next step.
    micro wax and hto with some pao oil.
    i wasn't gonna go quite that high with the hto.
    but it looks like maybe i need to, to increase the visc.
    i have to look at the cold side too.

    upping the mix to b-wax ratio worked very nicely it is now the same consistency as my winter moly lube.
    it flows through the lubesizer at 65* f room temp with about 50 psi air pressure.
    i can add more of the mix to the b-wax to fine tune the temp window.
    i have some boolits lubed up and brass being readied, so we'll see the intial shooting soon.

    gotta go wash some grease out of my hair now.......don't ask.

  17. #157
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    Alright! Got your box o'goodies, Bruce, thanks. I read through the literature and I think I understand what I have, the HTO is the most interesting of all, basically "synthetic lard". I wonder how it would work in a black powder lube with beeswax and canola oil? I'll bet it would make one heck of a case lube additive as well, being that it's intended purpose is improving the lubricity of oil or oil emulsions for metal drawing purposes.

    Thinking out loud some more, I'm also wondering how the non-compressible gellants like bentone and silica would work with the extrememly flexible fiber-matrix base that Lithium complex has. I noticed in some of my reading that the inert thickeners make a more "solid" grease whereas the soaps are more springy. Also, the intert thickeners can let go of the oils under extreme pressure or acceleration, like when a boolit is fired from a gun. It seems the inertia of the thickeners can physically separate from the base oils under these forces (I keep thinking of a centrifuge), which could be good for our boolit lube or bad, not sure either way.

    Time for more 'spearmentin'.

    Gear

  18. #158
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    i was thinking of the long chain hto more as a binder much like mono ethyleny glycol [MEG],or poly ethylene glycol [PEG] is used.
    anyway, you can see where i was going with the above mix.

    not really sure what to expect from everything i went kind of conservative and worked up.
    i have seen guar gel instantly to three minutes,break and re-gel even stronger.
    i couldn't find any of my ph testing stuff, i wanted to see if the ph would make a difference in the gelling or if there was a change as it gelled.


    a continous release of oil would be good as long as there isn't too much of it available.

    i can't wait to see what you do decide to finally make.

  19. #159
    Boolit Master bruce381's Avatar
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    I do not know how thease will work just stuff I had that coverd thick to thin, Soaps are stringy solids are not so much but how much slip or sealing they have is a question try all together or one at time in just beeswax, bye the way i have half a drum of the micro wax that I can maybe donate if it worked out also the base oils I have all the time.

    Run, I do not think pH will make a dif in gelling with the solids (silica and bentone) as you can read it takes high shear to gell oils with them so maybe not worth a test or maybe the sliding in a barrel will gel?

    Also as far ar cold barrle flyers vs warm could it be that cold the old lube is NOT wetting or letting lube out to lube the barrel till it warms/melts?

    The HTO has very good high presure lubricating properties and will gell all the oils I sent to some degree.

    email or let me know if any other thoughts come up.
    bruce

  20. #160
    Boolit Master bruce381's Avatar
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    case lube alcohol with the HTO replacing lanolin would work well I think.

    I think I sent some boron nitride too didin't I

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check