"Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

[runfiverun]

so the next step up from the E- lubes does work as well as we had predicted.
i was lubing some up today since my gas checks finally came.
finished up the few 8mm's with the purple then swapped the airhose over to the yellow and have been picking away at them.
thinking about how they have performed for me so far.
from the 100 shot day through the hunting situations i have had them in so far,and the main differences between them.
the beginning greases and the addition of the micro-wax to the purple being the main ones, but how remarkably different they actually were with just those small changes.

i am very happy with these two lubes right now, especially now since yours worked so well in the heat.
i really need to get some 308's put together and do a side by side test as far as accuracy.
i'm also glad you mentioned the velocity increase,as i have been wondering about that happening from a more efficient lube.
i think we discussed this possibility earlier.

[geargnasher]

I'm just glad I remembered to take the chrony with me to the range. I know what this load does, but I thought I'd better take it anyway in case I saw something weird. The 2" higher POI at 100 wasn't entirly surprising, I saw it once before when using the Ivory/ATF lube.

I to am wondering a bit what to do next, I might try a sort of synthetic Felix lube, and I'd like to shoot the micro-speed-green more at lower velocity and see if I can't get the group to clump together, and eventually I still want to try the Tri-Stearate lube now that I have two of the three ingredients, but mostly I think I'll make more of this micro-lithi and see how it works. Once I get a better feel for it and get more rounds downrange it will be time for some fine-tuning. I have a couple of tubes of Coastal camshaft break-in lube that's supposed to have a lot of zinc in it, not sure if I can add enough to make any difference in the lube without getting too much oil, but it might be worth a shot.

Gear

[geargnasher]

One more thing I forgot to mention, I toyed with the lithium 12 brick grease again last night, mixing it 50/50 with microwax makes a lube that feels very much like NRA 50/50. Not very slick though, so I added some lard, neat, and sulfur oil at 1% each. Holy Moley it got slippery in a hurry! and stunk like rotten butt, too. Ick. I didn't bother trying to shoot it on account of the smell alone. I might make some more of just the grease and wax and see how it does, my only worry is how it will shoot in the cold with the low VI oils it contains.

Gear

[bruce381]

gear and run send me your emails i want to send some cool grease data info on additives on the down low

[geargnasher]

PM sent, Bruce.

Gear

[arcticbreeze]

gear

I was reading this thread from the beginning yesterday and after only reading the first couple of pages some of the discussion was about the possibility of a "liquid paper jacket". It reminded me of a product that I have use in some fiberglass repair. It is called wood flour, it is a very fine powdered wood used to thicken epoxy into a somewhat putty constancy. Do you think something like that with a synthetic lubricant and a binder would have any potential?

Marc

[bruce381]

that sounds like a solid lube kinda like the current moly coated polymer boolits

[bruce381]

gear see page 7 or 8 please keep supplier quiet for now

[geargnasher]

Yes, Marc, I'd love to try something like that, I'll check into it. Bruce sent us some Cab-O-Sil gellant to try, it's a grade of fumed silica used for making no-drip fiberglass resin, I'm sure you're familiar with it if you've done much work with fiberglass. A wood-fiber "gellant", some microwax, and a splash of Bullplate or PAO-based tranny fluid would be worth a go in my book, I'll see what I can find.

I wasn't really trying to replace the paper jacket with wood in the grooves, but I know that wood fiber and gun steel like each other just fine even at 3,000 FPS relative speed, and wood fiber leaves a really clean bore each shot, so a lube containing a large amount of wood pulp might accomplish several important tasks: Leave a consistent bore condition shot-to-shot regardless of temperature or weather, seal like crazy against any gas leaks, and let go right at the muzzle because it wouldn't have to be too sticky to stay in the groove. Just a little wax and a tiny bit of lube oil is all it would need, maybe just wax.

A related aside, I've discussed privately with a couple of the guys on this thread about micro-cellulose and other forms of cellulose gums. The issue with the broken-down cellulose, guar gum, and another popular plant gum that slips my mind at the moment is that they are water-soluble and very hygroscopic, but not very soluble in oils. Might be rust magnet, in other words.

Gear

[runfiverun]

p.m. coming.

[felix]

Agree. All suppliers should be kept out of the pages here, unless we can guarantee an exclusive contact person. Nothing worse than any confusion on the supplier side with untimely requests from our site. Believe me, they can decipher the source in no time flat and will be thinking they are being taken advantage of. Been there and done that. ... felix

[geargnasher]

Holy polymers, Bruceman! Looks like I wasn't too far off messing with Vybar and the candle opacity/translucency additives. The treat rate is about the same, too. The question is, do we need any of it? At this point it's really tough to tell what might be needed to fine-tune.

I have a lube that works pretty well right now, seems to have what it needs and in the right proportions (lots of trial and error aimed at proving the need of each part, and the amounts), but I don't know what else to do if it doesn't lead, shoots straight, and leaves the boolit at the muzzle while also not rusting anything, being storage and heat-stable, and of a consistency that will work in a lube-sizer with minimal heat.

I don't remember if I mentioned it or not on this thread, but I did make some pretty interesting stuff with only 3% Vybar and Mobil 1 grease. It might work without wax. It worked in my .35 Remington with un-checked boolits.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Bruce, Felix might want to take a look at that too, it's along the lines of what he suggested much earlier in the thread.

Gear

[geargnasher]

System Three makes a wood flour epoxy additive that looks just perfect. I'm definitely going to try this, thanks for the tip Arcticbreeze.

Gear

[bruce381]

Bruce, Felix might want to take a look at that too, it's along the lines of what he suggested much earlier in the thread.

Gear

please foward on if you wish

[runfiverun]

i'd bet a softer wax would prove out better.
and would definatly help with the jettison.

[Marlin Junky]

I don't remember if I mentioned it or not on this thread, but I did make some pretty interesting stuff with only 3% Vybar and Mobil 1 grease. It might work without wax. It worked in my .35 Remington with un-checked boolits.

Gear

Did the Vybar (was that Vybar 103?) thicken the Mobil 1 grease? I thought Vybar was created to allow candle waxes (e.g., paraffin) to absorb more oil (e.g., scented oils). How does Vybar react/combine with Lithium based greases like Mobil 1?

MJ

[geargnasher]

MJ, Vybar 103 melts at a little over 200F and goes right into the grease at about 220F. It makes the grease set up really firm, but you can knead it into a putty if you don't use too much Vybar. If you get the amount just perfect, to a half-percent or so, it will make the grease firm but not sticky after kneading. I'm not sure how it would do in a lube-sizer if you melted and poured it in, but I'm sure some heat would need to be applied to get it to flow again after it cooled in a still state. My lube notes contain over a hundred recipe ideas, over 70 of them have been tried, and if I remember right I'm up to around 30 that I've tested, so I admit the Vybar/grease thing got overlooked. My only real concern with it was whether or not the Vybar would build up a plastic film in the barrel, which is why I did end up shooting some of it in the .35, but I don't think it built up as far as I could tell. It did melt and jettison well when shot, I still have the paper from the point-blank tests somewhere.

Gear

[arcticbreeze]

I just dug around the shed and I have some wood flour if either of you would like me to send you some. Here you can see what the constancy looks like. It is very light and fine, even lighter I would say than wheat flour. It reminds me of what you would empty from a sander with a bag attachment.

Marc

[runfiverun]

i'm not sure how you'd drive the moisture out of the wood,and replace it with the right oils and keep it in suspension.
if you could dry it out to 1-2%, then boil the rest off in the mixing process, you could easily form a cookie dough from it.
with either a grease or the right wax.
or even an anhydrous [lanolin?] mix.