SL-68 was tested to minus seven and didn't "puke".
Gear
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SL-68 was tested to minus seven and didn't "puke".
Gear
Understood, Gear, but isn't this still a sample of one? Unless I missed something.Originally Posted by geargnasher
But yes, the preliminaries are truly encouraging.
Perhaps it would be fair to say that some lubes petered out at high or low temperatures. Not every failure is as, um, dramatic as "puke" implies.
Why don't you make it a sample of two or more and report back?
Gear
Two reasons, my friend, and both posted long enough ago many would have forgotten:
1. I do not have, nor have access to, a rifle/boolit combination capable of less than 2 MOA accuracy. J-words are different. Handguns are 2-3 inches at 50 yards but that's not the challenging criterion for this Quest, AFAIC.
2. To get a rifle/ammo combo below about 20° F for this type of test, I would have to drive up into the mountains and camp out AND set up a testing "alley" through the snow. Well, usually snow this time of year. We have had unseasonably warm days so far, and I'm not ashamed to say that is more effort than I would be willing to put in to contribute to this part of the Quest--once obstacle #1 above is taken care of.
I *did* try to contribute with hot-weather testing the summer of 2013 using borrowed boolits and a borrowed rifle no longer available to me now, but the powders available (remember THAT little problem???) never yielded a sufficiently accurate load. The lube in question was disqualified by others for reasons I most likely would not have discovered at my end.
Thus I remain most grateful for those with suitable test mules who are putting in the actual testing work here. My hat is off to you all.
I hear you Grump. I put together a nice lube, I believe anyway, and asked a lube experienced forum member if he would be interested in testing it. Unfortunately I was nicely shot down on the offer................... life goes on.
I will say though, this has been a good thread with a lot of time invested by quite a few forum members.
One need not have a highly accurate rifle. Trust me, a bad lube will be obvious even with a 2 MOA rifle. Look for patterns of behavior. Does it throw the first shot out? Do groups get progressively larger if firing a series of 5 shot groups? Do you get an unexpected flyer every so many shots that tends to always be the same general location? Can the rifle be left uncleaned and resume good groups days or weeks later with no flyers off from shot one? Does it leave lots of residue in the bore? How does it work in handguns at both low and high pressure? Rifle?
Much of this, to me at least, is less about extreme accuracy and more about finding patterns of behavior. Compare a new line to a known lube and look for differences in behavior. That is what is important, not a few small groups.
You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.
That was a long time ago, have you compiled any more results with it? If so, would you share them? Brad, Run, and I can't test everything, and some of us (me, mainly) are after something in particular that isn't a requirement for most people. If the formula offered doesn't meet that criteria for me, I'm simply not interested, as there are plenty of good lubes that will suit most people just fine.
Gear
I have done a fraction of the testing Gear has done and I can assure you it is work. Hand lubing bullets, shooting groups, then repeating another day. Some never get a repeat as they suck right off the bat. It sorta takes the fun out of shooting, it is more like a chore.
I can only assume how much powder Gear has used up in testing but I bet he has gone thru at least 2 K gas checks, probably more.
You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...87#post3039487
I asked for you to try the boolit lube as your requirements are more stringent than mine. I need my lube to go from low pressure pistol rounds to higher end 454 Casull loads and then work for the 375 H&H rifle realm at 2300 fps with a 1:12 twist rate. I live in Kansas so see the temp swings but probably not as hot as down south, definitely not as hot as often.
None the less you were more than polite and I know it takes work to test as I've done enough myself so no big deal. If you want look at the recipe in the "Just the facts: Lube recipes" link above and you can decide if it may be something to work with for your particular needs.
Last edited by RobS; 12-19-2014 at 10:11 PM.
Rob, what you need is better cold weather performance. Gear has heat but not the kind of cold you and I get.
Your 454 is perfect for testing in handguns as it develops higher pressure than anything I own. If it handles full loads in a 454 it will likely be fine in low intensity loads.
You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.
The lube I reference to as Red 10 does work well for everything I do but was wondering how well it would work for others.
Rob, I know virtually NOTHING about lube cooking, but your recipe looks similar to (banned) member 357Maximum's "Satan" lube. IIRC his recipe was 6 oz each of beeswax, paraffin, and Vaseline with 1 oz ivory soap added. Yours has more of the greases in it than his. I'd try it up here in the great white north if you had a mind to send a small sample (1 ounce). I've been working on a load for my .416 Ruger with the RCBS 416-350GC @ about 2000-2200fps. Can't guarantee the low temps I can shoot it in as we have been having a milder winter than most. Heck, I don't even think we've been down to zero yet. I'd offer to try the other lubes gear and others have cooked up, but IIRC Eutectic has been doing the really cold weather testing and probably has more time and colder temps than me right now.
wlc:
You are correct it is very similar to Satan lube or old NRA lube with some adjustments and I believe the biggest is the use of Lucas Red N' Tacky. The ivory soap is the binder of course and the use of Red N' Tacky brings with it what would be better base oils as well as the other additives. I have tried many different greases in lube recipes and find myself right back at Red N' Tacky. Not an extreme lube but Red N' Tacky along with beeswax or a Red N' Tacky lithibee lube is hard to beat but has it's flaws when considering this tread. Then another noted recipe is Ben's Red which is a Red N' Tacky derived lube.
I don't know if Red 10 will foot the bill for extreme and is why I was wanting to see. PM sent your way.
Rob don't feel bad about Gear passing on trying your Lube.
I have had to politely pass on testing stuff too, some of it i really wanted to give a try, and some i had been looking at buying and couldn't afford.
but I either have time or I don't [mostly don't] and it's hard to keep a commitment like that and give it a fair shake.
I just yesterday used a swage die I have had sitting in the drawer for 9 months after waiting patiently for over 2 years for it to arrive.
I still have to get some of the bullets loaded and see how they shoot [and perform some tests before hunting deer with them]
which means I have to decide on starting with these bullets or start working on a base-line high velocity cast load in this rifle so I can move into some more lube testing.
either way this places a little project I had going with popper to the back burner for a little while longer.
Like I said, this stuff gets to be like work. I was berated for not posting more XCB groups, groups I haven't shot. Life happens.
Rob, I think you have a good looking lube. Most important of all, it meets your needs so far, or so it seems.
Heck, I still need to make a batch of Gears latest and see what it does. Then again, that would require shooting, something I haven't done since deer season. I haven't been to the range in over 6 weeks.
You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.
Rob, watch that stuff over time. Much of the time sodium and lithium don't get along, depending on which kind of lithium salt was used (pretty sure it's a blend in Lucas) and what other components are present. Sometimes you'll think you have a good mix and it will de-oil under pressure, as in a lube sizer. Sometimes the lube just gets softer with age as the metal salts break each other down. Then again, it may be fine, only time and use will tell.
That said, the lube has a lot of the 'right stuff' in it and is actually a pretty clever formula, reminiscent of the non-thixotropic "tri-stearate" lube we discussed quite a bit at one time on this thread. A little magesium stearate, in the correct proportions, should do wonders for stability of the grease matrix, but we never got to test how well it does in a rifle barrel and whether or not the very small Mg stearate molecule will accumulate over time like the calcium in Alox does.
Gear
Thanks for your part in that, Gear.
I was able to test with only one powder and I think the 3-4 load increments I tried were running about 2,400 fps in a 16-inch AR. IIRC, only the lowest charge would not cycle the thing.
But I never got better than 3-inch groups, with an optic, and then life started happening a bit faster and I couldn't find any other powder to even *consider* trying out for more than six months. Then the rifle and owner moved up north a few miles, like 250 or so.
Now I'm chasing the accuracy demon with a WunderNine.
Maybe I will try those moderate-speed 165-gr spitzers in .308...it's the "Squibb" boolit, Lyman number I don't remember and I don' wanna shuffle out to the shop to see. NRA testing in the 60s showed it rapidly lost accuracy at speeds above something like 1,600 fps. I'm not sure that speed limit would really contribute that much to the Extreme part of the Quest, but I *am* feeling the curiousity bug starting to stir within me...
Any further developments on learning what is required for analysis of the Navy wax? Considering the effort thus far involved, & the fact we know Starmetal works, there may be something to be said for throwing money at the problem. Hold out the Salvation Army bucket once you know.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
I'll help out some, let me know.
We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).
Every "freedom" (latitude) given to government is a loophole in the rule of law. Every loophole in the rule of law is another hole in our freedom. When they even obey the law that is. Too often government seems to feel itself above the law.
We forgot to take out the trash in 2012, but 2016 was a charm! YESSS!
I'm working on getting the wax analyzed, with any luck we should know something in about a month.
Gear
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